Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

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Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 5:54 pm

Child killer Jon Venables is to get a new secret name, because of a serious security breach which has revealed details of his current identity.


A police photograph of Jon Venables taken in 1993

Details of the breach cannot be revealed for legal reasons. But it means that he will have to learn another fake background and be given a new set of documents, including a passport and birth certificate. He will not be able to return to the town where he was living when he is released from his latest prison sentence.

Venables was given a first new identity in 2001 when he was freed from his life sentence, along with Robert Thompson, for the murder in Liverpool of toddler James Bulger. The two killers were granted lifelong anonymity around their new identities, such was the concern that they would be attacked.


James Bulger was abducted from a shopping centre in Bootle in 1993

When Venables, 28, was jailed again last year for internet child sex abuse crimes it emerged that he had been telling some people who he really was. During the court case it emerged that as an adult Venables had developed drink and drugs problems and had been cautioned by police for cocaine possession. A judge partially lifted the lifelong gagging order to reveal that he had been living in Cheshire and his latest crimes had been committed in that county.

At that time the Home Office and Probation Service considered giving him a second new identity - along with a detailed history and the documents to support it - but decided against it because of the problems Venables would have dealing with such a big change. A source said: "We had resisted a new ID because he had lived with the first one for so long and it's very difficult to do that. But the new security breach is considered so serious that a new identity is the only answer, because we believe so many people will have learned who he is and it would be impossible to protect him."

Venables is to appear before the Parole Board in a couple of months when a panel will consider freeing him from his latest jail sentence. He will remain on licence for the James Bulger murder and risk being recalled to prison for any serious bad behaviour.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/James-Bulger-Killer-Jon-Venables-To-Be-Given-New-ID-After-Security-Breach-Revealed-Old-Identity/Article/201105115985161?lpos=UK_News_First_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15985161_James_Bulger_Killer_Jon_Venables_To_Be_Given_New_ID_After_Security_Breach_Revealed_Old_Identity



If Venables is telling people who he really is it will never be possible to protect him. Maybe it would be safer to detain him. Safer for him, safer for our children Sad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 7:53 pm

He should definitley be kept in some secure safehouse indefinitley imo. He had his chance and has blown it. As you say, if he keeps telling people he is jeapordising not only himself but others.

Jail is a waste of time, he is beyond reform now and will just be a target of revenge attacks, making the guards jobs a nightmare.

Since our ridiculous justice system will see him released though, it is understandable he be given yet another ID; it would be nice of course to be able to rely on the public being reasonable and not seeking him out...

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 8:26 pm

eilzel wrote:He should definitley be kept in some secure safehouse indefinitley imo. He had his chance and has blown it. As you say, if he keeps telling people he is jeapordising not only himself but others.

Jail is a waste of time, he is beyond reform now and will just be a target of revenge attacks, making the guards jobs a nightmare.

Since our ridiculous justice system will see him released though, it is understandable he be given yet another ID; it would be nice of course to be able to rely on the public being reasonable and not seeking him out...

Hey Eilzel I love you xxx

Bet you're watching the football in between posting Wink

It's such a difficult call knowing what to do with someone like this, someone who appears to be beyond rehabilitation. A constant threat to himself and others, to potential victims.

We don't seem to have a solution Sad


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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 8:33 pm

Lock him in a nuthouse for life; sounds harsh but what else is there? Sad

Watching football a bit whilst doing my assignment, can't concerntrate tonight though... anyway football is depressing since United are destroying Shalka and I'm a Man City fan Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 8:39 pm

eilzel wrote:Lock him in a nuthouse for life; sounds harsh but what else is there? Sad

Watching football a bit whilst doing my assignment, can't concerntrate tonight though... anyway football is depressing since United are destroying Shalka and I'm a Man City fan Evil or Very Mad

Sadly Eilzel, I think you're right. There isn't really any other alternative in these circumstances Sad

Sorry to hear about the football, switch it off! As for your assignment, if you can't concentrate put it aside until tomorrow. When I'm in that frame of mind it's always much clearer in the morning. Hope it's still going well though xxxx

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:05 pm

Feelthelove wrote:

Sadly Eilzel, I think you're right. There isn't really any other alternative in these circumstances Sad

Sorry to hear about the football, switch it off! As for your assignment, if you can't concentrate put it aside until tomorrow. When I'm in that frame of mind it's always much clearer in the morning. Hope it's still going well though xxxx

It is a story I must admit to having a depressing interest in. Mostly because I was so sickened by the reaction of the majority of people to these two Sad

I have done enough on my assignment for now I think; will look at it again tomorrow and dread the deadline next week even more pale lol!

Thanks though x

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:08 pm

10 year olds or not, if we'd hung these evil little f*ckers orginally, we wouldn't now be having these problems with them! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:17 pm

MrDoodles wrote:10 year olds or not, if we'd hung these evil little f*ckers orginally, we wouldn't now be having these problems with them! Evil or Very Mad

But as society that hangs 10 year olds I'd say we'd have MAJOR (ie: mega, colossal, sick in the head) problems as a society Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:20 pm

eilzel wrote:

But as society that hangs 10 year olds I'd say we'd have MAJOR (ie: mega, colossal, sick in the head) problems as a society Evil or Very Mad

What, you mean like two 10 year olds, abducting a Toddler, throwing bricks at his head, stripping him and repeatedly kicking him in the genitals, forcing batteries up his arse and then leaving him half dead across a railway line, so he's cut in half, whilst still alive? Question Rolling Eyes

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:25 pm

MrDoodles wrote:

What, you mean like two 10 year olds, abducting a Toddler, throwing bricks at his head, stripping him and repeatedly kicking him in the genitals, forcing batteries up his arse and then leaving him half dead across a railway line, so he's cut in half, whilst still alive? Question Rolling Eyes

Just like that yes.

I imagine the parents of Venables and Thompson were pretty sick individuals, violent, letting them watch god knows what. They are probably mostly responsible for those two ending up the way they did...

Oh and apologies for sounding a bit hostile, but it is the public reaction at the time (the thugs charging the security vans they were in) that really chills me. How people could express so much hate against what were still kids, sickens me it really does.

And eye for an eye justice is not something I support in such extraordinary cases. As far as we know Thompson is reformed, which shows we can get it right on occassion.

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:30 pm

eilzel wrote:

Just like that yes.

I imagine the parents of Venables and Thompson were pretty sick individuals, violent, letting them watch god knows what. They are probably mostly responsible for those two ending up the way they did...

Oh and apologies for sounding a bit hostile, but it is the public reaction at the time (the thugs charging the security vans they were in) that really chills me. How people could express so much hate against what were still kids, sickens me it really does.

And eye for an eye justice is not something I support in such extraordinary cases. As far as we know Thompson is reformed, which shows we can get it right on occassion.

Sorry, eilzel, I would have pulled the handle on the trap door for both of these littler f*ckers and slept VERY soundly afterwards! Twisted Evil

You just knew, that it wouldn't be the last we'd hear about them though! Evil or Very Mad

What that poor kids mother has gone through, is absolutely beyond comprehension for me! Sad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:36 pm

MrDoodles wrote:

Sorry, eilzel, I would have pulled the handle on the trap door for both of these littler f*ckers and slept VERY soundly afterwards! Twisted Evil

You just knew, that it wouldn't be the last we'd hear about them though! Evil or Very Mad

What that poor kids mother has gone through, is absolutely beyond comprehension for me! Sad

"Sorry, eilzel, I would have pulled the handle on the trap door for both of these littler f*ckers and slept VERY soundly afterwards! Twisted Evil"

Well I'm sad to hear that MrD; I always imagine it would take a somewhat detached individual to have the job of executioner. For someone to be able to carry out such a job on two children, as a fully understanding adult, I cannot imagine having the mentality for such a thing Sad

Of course I sympathise with the mother and the family; it is horrible what happened. But I still could never hate children as they were hated...

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:45 pm

eilzel wrote:

"Sorry, eilzel, I would have pulled the handle on the trap door for both of these littler f*ckers and slept VERY soundly afterwards! Twisted Evil"

Well I'm sad to hear that MrD; I always imagine it would take a somewhat detached individual to have the job of executioner. For someone to be able to carry out such a job on two children, as a fully understanding adult, I cannot imagine having the mentality for such a thing Sad


And I can't understand people like you, who enable scum like this behaviour either, must be an age thing! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by victorismyhero on Wed May 04, 2011 9:48 pm

eilzel wrote:

"Sorry, eilzel, I would have pulled the handle on the trap door for both of these littler f*ckers and slept VERY soundly afterwards! Twisted Evil"

Well I'm sad to hear that MrD; I always imagine it would take a somewhat detached individual to have the job of executioner. For someone to be able to carry out such a job on two children, as a fully understanding adult, I cannot imagine having the mentality for such a thing Sad

Of course I sympathise with the mother and the family; it is horrible what happened. But I still could never hate children as they were hated...

whilst i MAY be true that thompson has rehabilitated in a satisfactory manner, it would seen venables has not, with drugs and child porn etc....what is known as a recedivist, i.e. uncurable criminal.....so stretch him.......or reduce him by a head...either would be satisfactory.......
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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Wed May 04, 2011 9:59 pm

victorismyhero wrote:

whilst i MAY be true that thompson has rehabilitated in a satisfactory manner, it would seen venables has not, with drugs and child porn etc....what is known as a recedivist, i.e. uncurable criminal.....so stretch him.......or reduce him by a head...either would be satisfactory.......

Hi Victor x

So based on what we know to be true, Thompson may have been rehabilitated, Venables has not. So if both were hung as 10 year olds, justice would not have been served.

Hanging kids, I'll NEVER be able to accept that it's the right action to take Sad

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by victorismyhero on Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 pm

Feelthelove wrote:

Hi Victor x

So based on what we know to be true, Thompson may have been rehabilitated, Venables has not. So if both were hung as 10 year olds, justice would not have been served.

Hanging kids, I'll NEVER be able to accept that it's the right action to take Sad
In this you are of course quite right...however venables now as an adult is a different matter.........
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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Thu May 05, 2011 9:03 am

We had this debate on the old site, so at what age do you think that a child should become responsible for it's own actions then? Question

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by victorismyhero on Thu May 05, 2011 2:00 pm

MrDoodles wrote:We had this debate on the old site, so at what age do you think that a child should become responsible for it's own actions then? Question

A very good question Mr D, and one that requires a better understanding of both psychology as applied to the judging of maturity AND a better understanding of ethics than I can claim to have. It has to be kept in mind that SOME individuals, whilst not apparantly lacking in intelligence can in fact, have NO or little ability to be responsible for their own actions, one class of persons thus affected are those suffering from Autism. It is not so much age which determines a persons ability to take responsibility for their actions but maturity and that is a far harder thing to define. more to follow GTG ...got visitors
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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by victorismyhero on Thu May 05, 2011 3:38 pm

Continued.......

A child of 10 may WELL know that it is wrong to do a certain action, but may have little idea of the full and tragic consequences of that action....especially when brought up in an environment that distorts his values and de-sensitises him to any sort of empathic reaction. That is to say he may know empirically that such an action is wrong..we all know from an early age that killing is wrong...But just how wrong and just how evil his actions were may well have escaped him totally. Thus you cannot say that he was fully responsible for his actions. Even more extreme of course is that he may NOT have been aware that killing etc was wrong, given access to enough material gloryfying killing, even that basic premise could have been warped out of him.... No Mr D, hanging a child under ANY circumstances would be utterly and irretrievably wrong and would do a grave injustice to our claim to be a civilised nation.

you ask how old...well IMO if you MUST have a death penalty (and under certain circumstances i might agree that that is permissable) then no one under the age of majority..could acceptably be subject to such a penalty, and further more, if there was the SLIGHTEST doubt that an adult subject to that penalty was in the LEAST bit "not responsible" then such penalty MUST be commuted. Either that or you risk bringing what otherwise would be a just system into disrepute. If the state wishes to be the arbiter of whether some one lives or dies, then it must, and must be seen, to excercise such power with the utmost discretion. it MUST ,if it wishes to be seen as just, ALWAYS be 100% right, never make a mistake and be fully open, responding to requests for reviews, even of old cases where rightfully requested to do so. If you can guarantee THAT Mr D then perhaps we can look at a DP being available.
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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Thu May 05, 2011 3:59 pm

victorismyhero wrote:No Mr D, hanging a child under ANY circumstances would be utterly and irretrievably wrong and would do a grave injustice to our claim to be a civilised nation.


OK them at what age do you think that someone should be "Criminally responsible" then? Question

(BTW, it's currently 10 in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and 8 in Scotland) Wink

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Thu May 05, 2011 6:00 pm

victorismyhero wrote:Continued.......

A child of 10 may WELL know that it is wrong to do a certain action, but may have little idea of the full and tragic consequences of that action....especially when brought up in an environment that distorts his values and de-sensitises him to any sort of empathic reaction. That is to say he may know empirically that such an action is wrong..we all know from an early age that killing is wrong...But just how wrong and just how evil his actions were may well have escaped him totally. Thus you cannot say that he was fully responsible for his actions. Even more extreme of course is that he may NOT have been aware that killing etc was wrong, given access to enough material gloryfying killing, even that basic premise could have been warped out of him.... No Mr D, hanging a child under ANY circumstances would be utterly and irretrievably wrong and would do a grave injustice to our claim to be a civilised nation.

you ask how old...well IMO if you MUST have a death penalty (and under certain circumstances i might agree that that is permissable) then no one under the age of majority..could acceptably be subject to such a penalty, and further more, if there was the SLIGHTEST doubt that an adult subject to that penalty was in the LEAST bit "not responsible" then such penalty MUST be commuted. Either that or you risk bringing what otherwise would be a just system into disrepute. If the state wishes to be the arbiter of whether some one lives or dies, then it must, and must be seen, to excercise such power with the utmost discretion. it MUST ,if it wishes to be seen as just, ALWAYS be 100% right, never make a mistake and be fully open, responding to requests for reviews, even of old cases where rightfully requested to do so. If you can guarantee THAT Mr D then perhaps we can look at a DP being available.

Excellent post Victor, although we may disagree on Venables specifically now, I agree with pretty much all you've said there Smile

Oh and MrD, to give you a specific age of responsibility. I think that some are knowingly responsible from around 14; but I think the law should be set at 16. 10 is hurrendously low...

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 10:58 am

I would disagree with hanging the evil scum when they were ten, but I would totally agree with them having a deferred sentence of being hanged when they reached the age of eighteen. In fact as they are now well passed eighteen, I would be delighted for them to be hanged NOW!!!!.

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 6:12 pm

fred bloggs wrote:I would disagree with hanging the evil scum when they were ten, but I would totally agree with them having a deferred sentence of being hanged when they reached the age of eighteen. In fact as they are now well passed eighteen, I would be delighted for them to be hanged NOW!!!!.

Why though? If Thompson is reformed what on earth would be the point in hanging him?

And what a waste of time and money to go through with such a thing? If we are just going to hang them 8 years later how would you keep them in the mean time, and to what end?

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 7:37 pm

Sorry folks, but I'm still struggling to come to terms with the fact that some of you think that a 10 year old doesn't know the difference between right and wrong and for a change, I have the Law to back me up! Twisted Evil

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Re: Breach Sees Child Killer Venables Get New ID

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 7:43 pm

MrDoodles wrote:Sorry folks, but I'm still struggling to come to terms with the fact that some of you think that a 10 year old doesn't know the difference between right and wrong and for a change, I have the Law to back me up! Twisted Evil

Only in this sometimes backward country of ours Neutral

Victor has actually already covered this perfectly imo MrD.

A 10 year does know the difference between right and wrong. But the scale of how wrong is another thing.
Do they REALLY understand the level of hurt they are bringing on the family? Did they realize the psychological and emotional impact this would have on themselves and their own family?

A 10 year knows murder is wrong. But they probably don't know how wrong when it comes to something as horrific as this.

Imagine if a child of yours had done this MrD, how would you want them dealt with?

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