Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

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Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by Sassy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:42 pm

Prominent wildlife photographer Richard Bowler says the government’s vote to reject the inclusion of animal sentience in the European Union Withdrawal Bill is a vote to say animals can no longer feel pain or emotions.

The move to reject sentience in the bill has been largely under-reported in the mainstream media despite Michael Gove facing criticism over his high animal welfare pledge.

Eighty per cent of current animal welfare legislation comes from the EU, but after March 2019, European law will no longer apply in the UK.

While most EU law relating to animals will be automatically brought over into UK law, this will not apply to the recognition of sentience.

Under EU law, animals are currently recognised as being capable of feeling pain and emotion. But MPs have this week voted to drop the inclusion of animal sentience into the Withdrawal Bill.

In a Facebook post, which has already been shared hundreds of times, Bowler says: “MP’s have voted and in their wisdom, animals can no longer feel pain or emotions.

“It really beggars belief that in this day and age, this shower of a government no longer recognises animals as sentient beings. None of them could have had a pet dog, greet them when they come home.

“But it’s not just domestic animals that show love and affection.”

Bowler posted this photo of a fox in a heartfelt plea to his Facebook audience:


Richard Bowler Wildlife Photography
Like This Page · November 17 ·

So MP's have voted and in their wisdom, animals can no longer feel pain or emotions. It really beggars belief that in this day and age, this shower of a government no longer recognises animals as sentient beings. None of them could have had a pet dog, greet them when they come home. But it's not just domestic animals that show love and affection. The photograph shows Rosie and how she greets me, every time I visit her. Are you telling me there's no emotion there, what you can't see is the wagging tail and the squeals of excitement as well. All three foxes I care for have built a bond with Maddy our terrier, she is greeted in exactly the same way. It's not hard to imagine that if bonds like this can be formed inter species, that the same bonds can be formed between a dog fox and a vixen and their cubs. In fact so called pest controllers use this to their advantage, after shooting the vixen they will often wait, knowing the dog fox will show up, to mourn if you like. Anyone who's seen elephant documentaries when families visit the bones of their dead can not fail to see that there are emotions going on there. Science is showing more and more animal intelligence and emotions and yet our government has yet again ignored it. There can only be one reason to deny animal sentient status, and that is to exploit them.
https://www.farminguk.com/news/MPs-vote-to-reject-inclusion-of-animal-sentience-in-Withdrawal-Bill_47923.html

One of the arguments put forward by the Government during the debate was that animal sentience is covered by the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

The RSPCA, however, said this is not the case; the term sentience or sentient being doesn’t appear once in that Act, and, the animal welfare charity said, doesn’t cover all animals.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/government-votes-animals-cant-feel-pain-emotions/17/11/



Some beautiful photos on his FB page, including this one of his dog and Rosie who have been friends for five years now.

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Re: Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by Shady3 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:19 pm

Sassy wrote:Prominent wildlife photographer Richard Bowler says the government’s vote to reject the inclusion of animal sentience in the European Union Withdrawal Bill is a vote to say animals can no longer feel pain or emotions.

The move to reject sentience in the bill has been largely under-reported in the mainstream media despite Michael Gove facing criticism over his high animal welfare pledge.

Eighty per cent of current animal welfare legislation comes from the EU, but after March 2019, European law will no longer apply in the UK.

While most EU law relating to animals will be automatically brought over into UK law, this will not apply to the recognition of sentience.

Under EU law, animals are currently recognised as being capable of feeling pain and emotion. But MPs have this week voted to drop the inclusion of animal sentience into the Withdrawal Bill.

In a Facebook post, which has already been shared hundreds of times, Bowler says: “MP’s have voted and in their wisdom, animals can no longer feel pain or emotions.

“It really beggars belief that in this day and age, this shower of a government no longer recognises animals as sentient beings. None of them could have had a pet dog, greet them when they come home.

“But it’s not just domestic animals that show love and affection.”

Bowler posted this photo of a fox in a heartfelt plea to his Facebook audience:


Richard Bowler Wildlife Photography
Like This Page · November 17 ·

So MP's have voted and in their wisdom, animals can no longer feel pain or emotions. It really beggars belief that in this day and age, this shower of a government no longer recognises animals as sentient beings. None of them could have had a pet dog, greet them when they come home. But it's not just domestic animals that show love and affection. The photograph shows Rosie and how she greets me, every time I visit her. Are you telling me there's no emotion there, what you can't see is the wagging tail and the squeals of excitement as well. All three foxes I care for have built a bond with Maddy our terrier, she is greeted in exactly the same way. It's not hard to imagine that if bonds like this can be formed inter species, that the same bonds can be formed between a dog fox and a vixen and their cubs. In fact so called pest controllers use this to their advantage, after shooting the vixen they will often wait, knowing the dog fox will show up, to mourn if you like. Anyone who's seen elephant documentaries when families visit the bones of their dead can not fail to see that there are emotions going on there. Science is showing more and more animal intelligence and emotions and yet our government has yet again ignored it. There can only be one reason to deny animal sentient status, and that is to exploit them.
https://www.farminguk.com/news/MPs-vote-to-reject-inclusion-of-animal-sentience-in-Withdrawal-Bill_47923.html

One of the arguments put forward by the Government during the debate was that animal sentience is covered by the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

The RSPCA, however, said this is not the case; the term sentience or sentient being doesn’t appear once in that Act, and, the animal welfare charity said, doesn’t cover all animals.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/government-votes-animals-cant-feel-pain-emotions/17/11/



Some beautiful photos on his FB page, including this one of his dog and Rosie who have been friends for five years now.


Sassy you know that this story is fake news,so why did you post it.The luvvie celebs have already apologized for their incorrect tweets.

Stop being so silly Sass.

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Re: Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by Sassy on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:44 pm

Animal sentience: What is really going on with the controversial Brexit amendment?



Here are the facts

Animal rights campaigners, politicians and journalists are involved in an argument about whether the Government believes animals are sentient. But what’s the truth?

The issue arose after a vote last week as part of the process of bringing EU legislation into UK law. Part of that process included a vote that, if passed, would have officially said that the UK recognises animals can be sentient.

That amendment didn’t pass. And it’s from that event that the confusion and disputation of this week emerged.

Some claimed the vote showed that the Government didn’t care about animals. Supporters of the Government claimed that it was the result of “fake news”.

The Government appears concerned that the reports will damage their popularity. Campaigners are worried that the law now protects animals less than it should.

The disagreement takes in specific parts of the law, the Brexit process, and parliamentary procedure. It strikes also at people’s most fundamental principles.

Put simply, what happened is this: MPs did not vote that animals are not sentient creatures. But neither did they vote for a law that would have recognised them as such.

That much is confirmed and is fairly clear, but the details around it are more complex.
Why is everyone talking about animal sentience?

The Government is going to have to transfer a lot of EU law into UK law, to ensure that important legislation remains in place. Last week, it was the turn of animal sentience.

The Lisbon Treaty includes the specific recognition that animals are sentient (that’s part of article 13 of title II). Because that wording was transferred to UK law as part of being in the EU, the British government also has to act in keeping with that legislation, until Brexit.

But once the UK leaves the EU, that will no longer apply. If it’s going to stick around, it will have to be passed again through Parliament – and that’s what MPs refused to do this week.

Campaigners argued that the failure to vote for the amendment demonstrated how little the Government cared about animals, who were now being opened up to danger as a result of the Brexit process. It was just a part of the Government’s lack of interest in the wellbeing of the vulnerable, campaigners suggested.

The Government had a different view, and claimed that it had voted against the amendment for a number of reasons. None of those reasons were because they didn’t believe in animal sentience, they said, and they continued to claim their welfare would be protected after Brexit.

The issue is of particular concern to the British public, and therefore to the Government. Two of the most damaging and widely-read stories of the election campaign were about the Conservatives’ failure to support the fox hunting and ivory trade bans – so the Government knows how much damage stories about their lack of commitment to animal welfare can do.

For those reasons, reaction has been quick, intense and loud, on all sides.
What do campaigners say?

Campaigners – and some news coverage – initially said that the Government had voted against recognising sentience.

The Independent was among publishers that reported the story in that way. But it became clear that this claim was not right, even though it had been interpreted by some campaigners in that way. (The Independent updated its coverage to ensure it was accurate). The amendment was voted down by MPs – that is indisputable – but it wasn’t necessarily a refusal to recognise sentience.

Despite that, campaigners pointed to the lack of explicit recognition of animal sentience in law as a demonstration that the Government didn’t care about animals. That was in keeping with a broader lack of protections for animals in UK law, they said, and without the extra legislation from the EU to back them up animals would be left in danger after Brexit.

Caroline Lucas, who had tabled the original amendment, has maintained that the Government is failing animals and the people by refusing to accept the wording of the Lisbon Treaty.

"The Government's refusal to accept this amendment is simply absurd - and their continued insistence that sentience is covered in Animal Welfare legislation is wrong,” she said. “Britain been forward thinking animal welfare over the years, which is why ditching this provision would be such a backwards step. The UK Government led on introducing this EU protocol in the first place, and it's only an obsession with refusing changes to the EU Withdrawal Bill that's stopping Ministers adopting this amendment now.

"The animal sentience protocol is important because it is an instruction to future governments when creating legislation – and it should be the basis of future lawmaking on animal welfare in Britain."
What does the Government say?

Initially, MPs attempted to take on the criticism in a flurry of critical tweets. Zac Goldsmith said that the discussion of the vote was “weird and dishonest”, for instance.

Another MP called the reporting fake news and said: "This government, and in fact all governments, are deeply committed to continuing to protect animals as sentient beings. That law is already written into our own law.” (That much isn’t true: there’s no mention of sentience in existing UK law.)

Many of those tweets were written up in articles themselves, which suggested that all of the preceding journalism had been incorrect in their claims about animal sentience.

Apparently flustered by the huge number of stories and the sheer amount of criticism, the Government has taken the unusual step of putting out a written statement that disagrees with the stories.

“This Government is committed to the very highest standards of animal welfare,” said Michael Gove in a written statement. “As the Prime Minister has set out, we will make the United Kingdom a world leader in the care and protection of animals.”

He went on to explain that the vote was done as a “rejection of a faulty amendment”, not because it disagreed with the principle being espoused.

“It has been suggested that the vote last week on New Clause 30 of the EU Withdrawal Bill somehow signalled a weakening in the protection of animals – that is wrong,” he wrote. “Voting against the amendment was not a vote against the idea that animals are sentient and feel pain – that is a misconception.”
Why are they able to disagree?

The most sensible and reasonable parts of the argument come down to a disagreement about the wording of a couple of very important laws.

Campaigners like Caroline Lucas say that it is important to recognise explicitly that animals are sentient, because that recognition is a principle upon which later laws can be decided. If the text of the Lisbon Treaty isn’t integrated into UK law, then that explicit recognition of animals as sentient beings will disappear.

The Government and some of its supporters say that doesn’t matter, because there are plenty of protections already in place. They point particularly to the Animal Welfare Act 2006, which contains laws about animals in distress.

It was that law that Theresa May pointed to during Prime Minister’s Questions this week. She said that the UK law had enough protections because of the 2006 act.

Ms Lucas says that law is problematic because it doesn’t contain the guarantee about sentience, and it is limited only to companion animals or pets – not farm animals, lab animals or wild animals.
So what’s the situation?

Some of the Government’s attempts to dismiss the controversy have been overly extreme, apparently in an attempt to write-off the entire discussion. Despite claims about fake news, it’s not definitive why exactly MPs voted against the amendment, or that the Government will meaningfully recognise animals as sentient – instead, it relies on people believing the Government’s claims that it will guarantee protections.

At the same time, many of the reports did miss a very specific but very important detail of what happened. Nobody voted that animals aren’t sentient, because that wasn’t ever up for a vote. Instead, they didn’t vote that they were. A number of stories gave a misleading impression by eliding that distinction.

With all of that out of the way, what you feel about all of this ultimately comes down to the issues above: whether you think it’s important that animal sentience is specifically recognised in law, whether you think the 2006 act goes far enough, and whether you believe the Government that it is going to guarantee similar protections in its own time.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/animal-sentience-brexit-vote-caroline-lucas-michael-gove-truth-fact-argument-a8072071.html


Them's the actual facts.

Re the last sentence, no I don't believe the Government and wouldn't trust it to put a stopper on a bottle.
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Re: Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by victorismyhero on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:09 pm

and yet your beloved EU permits (and indeed prevents us from halting) live export for slaughter and the import of puppies (and hence puppy farming abroad)
they are also way behind us in the standards applied for laboratory animals

and our animal protectionlaws atr some of te highest standard in the whole of europe...and are set to get tougher.

the existing laws, which require the abscence of "UNNECESARY harm and suffering are ..IF THE COURTS APPLIED it properly, quite sufficient

the problem isnt the law its the lefty leaning lenient "oh the poor boy had such a terrible life" judges.

the whole damn shebang of em should be rounded up sacked and replaced by people who will DO the job....
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Re: Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by Shady3 on Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:06 pm

It's fake news and the story has been exposed as fake in many papers.

Stop lying.

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Re: Government votes that “animals can’t feel pain or emotions”

Post by Sassy on Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:44 pm

It's not fake news and never was. We have to trust the Government. Funnily enough a pharmaceutical company are moving to the UK because we are leaving the EU and think they will be able to do more animal testing here. I wonder why? (will see if I can find the link). PS Don't call people liars because you disagree with their point of view.
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