Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:47 pm

Sassy wrote:Sounds wonderful - not.

At least they will let your coach on the roads the Israelis use and you won't have to bump along on the shit ones they force the Palestinians on.



f you didn't have peripheral vision, it would probably be fine. If you didn't glance to the sides of Israel's highway 443 between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, then it wouldn't smack you in the face that the road is – how shall we put it? – segregated. As it is, you can't help but notice that when the 443 passes by the Israeli town of Modi'in and heads east into the occupied West Bank, some of its side-routes are blocked. Concrete boulders, metal barriers, rubble and heaps of rubbish halt roads from Palestinian villages such as Beit Sira and Beit Ur al-Fuka.

And if you stop at one of those barricades, a complicated coping apparatus comes to light: cars deposit weary Palestinians who work inside Israel at these blocked routes; on the other side, lines of parked Palestinian cabs await to resume the interrupted journey home.

Palestinians without permits to work or travel inside Israel can't be on the 443 at all. So for the 3,000 inhabitants of Beit Sira, one of six villages affected by the blocked highway, a trip to nearby Ramallah, about 12 miles away, now takes hours via minor roads that are prohibitively long, pot-holed and sometimes flooded. Some 55,000 Palestinians are thought to be affected by the road ban.

The Israeli military barred Palestinian access to this road in 2002, citing security reasons after several shootings in which five Israelis were killed. But last December, Israel's supreme court ruled that this sweeping ban on Palestinian movement was disproportionate and that the roadblocks had to be lifted.

The court pointed out that the 443 – which cuts through the occupied West Bank for a 12-mile stretch – had only been approved during the 1980s on condition that it would be open to all. (A comic Hebrew animation explains this here.)

The army has had five months to sort it out, but that time was mostly employed by ministers to scaremonger about how an open 443 would make sitting targets of Israeli drivers, who would instantly migrate to the main Tel Aviv-Jerusalem route, highway 1 – and choke it.

Now the military has unveiled its response to the court's decision: a sort of de-block-and-re-block manoeuvre. The idea is to partially open parts of the road but to compensate that with an extra checkpoint at one end, scrutinising those Palestinians newly permitted to drive this limited section.

And so, once again, the Israeli military – the real authority in the West Bank – has shown that, unless absolutely compelled to do so, it cannot be trusted to do the right thing in the occupied territories. No matter that thousands of Palestinians who have nothing to do with any shooting or stone-throwing are denied easy access to the most basic facilities. No matter that sick patients don't make it to hospital on time; or that Palestinians have to rise at the crack of dawn, slip through the crevices of concrete barriers and creep slowly though an Israeli checkpoint – while Israeli-plated cars breeze past – just to get to work.

And why bother getting to the bones of the issue by asking why those few Palestinians would have attacked Israeli cars whistling through the West Bank, on a road that has been dug out of occupied land, in the midst of the viciously crushed second intifada? No; far easier to completely bar Palestinian passage on this road. And when the Israeli court challenges that, just block the road in a different way and see if those pedantic judges shut up.

But could the court be disinclined to shut up on this matter? The Israeli military claims that the court knew about the partial-opening plans. Meanwhile, some 1,000 Israeli families have petitioned the court to keep the road closed because they say the army's solution is too lax.

And the Association of Civil Rights in Israel, which filed the original petition to open the road, immediately filed another in response to army's unblocked-but-closed policy.

It looks as though highway 443 – so often cited as a symbol of segregationist policy – might not be properly open to Palestinians in the near future. But until it is, a drive on this road feels like a fast, scenic shortcut through another people's daily punishment.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/17/israel-palestine-highway-443-segregation

Was that because of the number of suicide bombers that were infecting this great place?

Isn't Gaza blocked from the Egypt end as well?
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:49 pm

I hope that JC will be doing something about the anti semitism in the party soon,....
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:11 pm







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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Sassy on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:13 pm

Yep, the show they put on for tourists.
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Sassy on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Philagain48 wrote:
Sassy wrote:Sounds wonderful - not.

At least they will let your coach on the roads the Israelis use and you won't have to bump along on the shit ones they force the Palestinians on.



f you didn't have peripheral vision, it would probably be fine. If you didn't glance to the sides of Israel's highway 443 between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, then it wouldn't smack you in the face that the road is – how shall we put it? – segregated. As it is, you can't help but notice that when the 443 passes by the Israeli town of Modi'in and heads east into the occupied West Bank, some of its side-routes are blocked. Concrete boulders, metal barriers, rubble and heaps of rubbish halt roads from Palestinian villages such as Beit Sira and Beit Ur al-Fuka.

And if you stop at one of those barricades, a complicated coping apparatus comes to light: cars deposit weary Palestinians who work inside Israel at these blocked routes; on the other side, lines of parked Palestinian cabs await to resume the interrupted journey home.

Palestinians without permits to work or travel inside Israel can't be on the 443 at all. So for the 3,000 inhabitants of Beit Sira, one of six villages affected by the blocked highway, a trip to nearby Ramallah, about 12 miles away, now takes hours via minor roads that are prohibitively long, pot-holed and sometimes flooded. Some 55,000 Palestinians are thought to be affected by the road ban.

The Israeli military barred Palestinian access to this road in 2002, citing security reasons after several shootings in which five Israelis were killed. But last December, Israel's supreme court ruled that this sweeping ban on Palestinian movement was disproportionate and that the roadblocks had to be lifted.

The court pointed out that the 443 – which cuts through the occupied West Bank for a 12-mile stretch – had only been approved during the 1980s on condition that it would be open to all. (A comic Hebrew animation explains this here.)

The army has had five months to sort it out, but that time was mostly employed by ministers to scaremonger about how an open 443 would make sitting targets of Israeli drivers, who would instantly migrate to the main Tel Aviv-Jerusalem route, highway 1 – and choke it.

Now the military has unveiled its response to the court's decision: a sort of de-block-and-re-block manoeuvre. The idea is to partially open parts of the road but to compensate that with an extra checkpoint at one end, scrutinising those Palestinians newly permitted to drive this limited section.

And so, once again, the Israeli military – the real authority in the West Bank – has shown that, unless absolutely compelled to do so, it cannot be trusted to do the right thing in the occupied territories. No matter that thousands of Palestinians who have nothing to do with any shooting or stone-throwing are denied easy access to the most basic facilities. No matter that sick patients don't make it to hospital on time; or that Palestinians have to rise at the crack of dawn, slip through the crevices of concrete barriers and creep slowly though an Israeli checkpoint – while Israeli-plated cars breeze past – just to get to work.

And why bother getting to the bones of the issue by asking why those few Palestinians would have attacked Israeli cars whistling through the West Bank, on a road that has been dug out of occupied land, in the midst of the viciously crushed second intifada? No; far easier to completely bar Palestinian passage on this road. And when the Israeli court challenges that, just block the road in a different way and see if those pedantic judges shut up.

But could the court be disinclined to shut up on this matter? The Israeli military claims that the court knew about the partial-opening plans. Meanwhile, some 1,000 Israeli families have petitioned the court to keep the road closed because they say the army's solution is too lax.

And the Association of Civil Rights in Israel, which filed the original petition to open the road, immediately filed another in response to army's unblocked-but-closed policy.

It looks as though highway 443 – so often cited as a symbol of segregationist policy – might not be properly open to Palestinians in the near future. But until it is, a drive on this road feels like a fast, scenic shortcut through another people's daily punishment.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/17/israel-palestine-highway-443-segregation

Was that because of the number of suicide bombers that were infecting this great place?

Isn't Gaza blocked from the Egypt end as well?


You are ignorant it's pathetic. The last suicide bomber was over 25 years ago. And Egypt and Gaza and Palestine have just reconciled with a unity government in Gaza. And boy, Israel don't like that.
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Sassy on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:19 pm

Philagain48 wrote:I hope that JC will be doing something about the anti semitism in the party soon,....


What a load of fucking rubbish


Jewish Voice for Labour

A network for Jewish members of the Labour Party.




It is hard to describe the high-energy atmosphere in the room. The next day a delegate with no previous connection to or awareness of JVL described it as the high point of the Conference for her. Others said it was one of the most memorable meetings they had ever been at. See a fuller report here.
October 1st, 2017 | Tags: JVL, Labour Party | Category: JVL
1 comment to Highlights from JVL’s public launch at the Labour Party Conference fringe

Ivan Wels
2 October 2017 at 07:51 · Reply

It’s like winning the jackpot! What an incredible start for the JVL and what a bonus having two union leaders saying they were going to affiliate when possible!

http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/jvl/highlights-jvls-public-launch-labour-party-conference-fringe/
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:21 pm


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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Sassy on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:23 pm

Yea, that's probably the beach that they climbed up on the hills from to cheer babies being blown up and burnt to death with white phosphorus.

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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:24 pm

Sassy wrote:
Philagain48 wrote:I hope that JC will be doing something about the anti semitism in the party soon,....


What a load of fucking rubbish


Jewish Voice for Labour

A network for Jewish members of the Labour Party.




It is hard to describe the high-energy atmosphere in the room. The next day a delegate with no previous connection to or awareness of JVL described it as the high point of the Conference for her. Others said it was one of the most memorable meetings they had ever been at. See a fuller report here.
October 1st, 2017 | Tags: JVL, Labour Party | Category: JVL
1 comment to Highlights from JVL’s public launch at the Labour Party Conference fringe

   Ivan Wels
   2 October 2017 at 07:51 · Reply

   It’s like winning the jackpot! What an incredible start for the JVL and what a bonus having two union leaders saying they were going to affiliate when possible!

http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/jvl/highlights-jvls-public-launch-labour-party-conference-fringe/


Would you moan at them if they visited Israel then? Shocked Laughing
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Aspca4ever on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Philagain1 wrote:


Razz cheers

Oh, so Doug's resting at home with a supervised care/helper and he's tending to those furry family members too.  That's a relief. 
TY for the weather image, as I was wondering how balmy to hot the temps were over there. 
Had you always wanted to go to Israel - had you traveled there before when you were younger? 
You people just hop a plane and fly to such exotic spots and I've been to St. Croix/Canada/Mexico and that's 'IT' for my travels. With all of this SECURITY ISSUES, I'll never be flying again, not enough Dramamine to drag my chubby butt off mother earth!  LOL 
What does the air SMELL like; is it a distinct/dusty aromatic smell, with some nice scent or depending on the area, and what time of day - what cooking for the meal that is carried on the local breeze?
Love those photo's, assuming that they are from around your hotel area.
Are you shopping for something special for Doug: clothing/spice/scent or for the house?
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Sassy on Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:42 pm

Philagain48 wrote:
Sassy wrote:
Philagain48 wrote:I hope that JC will be doing something about the anti semitism in the party soon,....


What a load of fucking rubbish


Jewish Voice for Labour

A network for Jewish members of the Labour Party.




It is hard to describe the high-energy atmosphere in the room. The next day a delegate with no previous connection to or awareness of JVL described it as the high point of the Conference for her. Others said it was one of the most memorable meetings they had ever been at. See a fuller report here.
October 1st, 2017 | Tags: JVL, Labour Party | Category: JVL
1 comment to Highlights from JVL’s public launch at the Labour Party Conference fringe

   Ivan Wels
   2 October 2017 at 07:51 · Reply

   It’s like winning the jackpot! What an incredible start for the JVL and what a bonus having two union leaders saying they were going to affiliate when possible!

http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/jvl/highlights-jvls-public-launch-labour-party-conference-fringe/


Would you moan at them if they visited Israel then? Shocked Laughing


No, but they would go knowing the truth, they are anti Zionists and support BDS.
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:12 pm

Discover the New Testament sites of Nazareth and the Sea of Galilee on this day trip from Tel Aviv. In Nazareth, Jesus’ childhood home, explore the Church of the Annunciation and Church of St Joseph. After your Nazareth tour, visit some fabled miracle locations around the Sea of Galilee including the site of the feeding of the 5,000. Visit Capernaum and then pass through Tiberias on route to the Jordan River, with the chance to be baptized in its waters. Nazareth and Galilee tours don’t come much more comprehensive! Highlights Full day trip from Tel Aviv to Nazareth, Tiberias and the Sea of Galilee Guided tour of popular Holy Land sights, such as the Church of the Annunciation and Mt. Tabor Optional baptism on the Jordan River Transport by air-conditioned coach Hotel pick-up and drop-off

Read more about Nazareth, Tiberias and the Sea of Galilee Day Trip from Tel Aviv 2017 at: https://www.viator.com/tours/Tel-Aviv/Nazareth-Tiberias-and-the-Sea-of-Galilee-Day-Trip-from-Tel-Aviv/d920-5209NAZA?pub=vcps


Laughing   Might just do that for a laugh on Saturday, will that give me a clean slate?
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:56 pm





View of Jerusalem, nice new roads to get there Cool
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:00 pm


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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:08 pm







Mount of Olives, church and garden where he was arrested.
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:14 pm



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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:26 pm




Inside the church of Mount Of Olives
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Aspca4ever on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:33 pm

Aspca4ever wrote:
Philagain1 wrote:


Razz cheers

Oh, so Doug's resting at home with a supervised care/helper and he's tending to those furry family members too.  That's a relief. 
TY for the weather image, as I was wondering how balmy to hot the temps were over there. 
Had you always wanted to go to Israel - had you traveled there before when you were younger? 
You people just hop a plane and fly to such exotic spots and I've been to St. Croix/Canada/Mexico and that's 'IT' for my travels. With all of this SECURITY ISSUES, I'll never be flying again, not enough Dramamine to drag my chubby butt off mother earth!  LOL 
What does the air SMELL like; is it a distinct/dusty aromatic smell, with some nice scent or depending on the area, and what time of day - what cooking for the meal that is carried on the local breeze?
Love those photo's, assuming that they are from around your hotel area.
Are you shopping for something special for Doug: clothing/spice/scent or for the house?

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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:37 pm






The Mount Of Olives is breathtaking!
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:44 pm

Aspca4ever wrote:
Aspca4ever wrote:
Philagain1 wrote:


Razz cheers

Oh, so Doug's resting at home with a supervised care/helper and he's tending to those furry family members too.  That's a relief. 
TY for the weather image, as I was wondering how balmy to hot the temps were over there. 
Had you always wanted to go to Israel - had you traveled there before when you were younger? 
You people just hop a plane and fly to such exotic spots and I've been to St. Croix/Canada/Mexico and that's 'IT' for my travels. With all of this SECURITY ISSUES, I'll never be flying again, not enough Dramamine to drag my chubby butt off mother earth!  LOL 
What does the air SMELL like; is it a distinct/dusty aromatic smell, with some nice scent or depending on the area, and what time of day - what cooking for the meal that is carried on the local breeze?
Love those photo's, assuming that they are from around your hotel area.
Are you shopping for something special for Doug: clothing/spice/scent or for the house?


Jerusalem is about an hour away from Tel Aviv on the coach. The mount of olives smells amazing, but that place is the highlight of my trip so far!

I've been on the phone to Doug every day, he could never have done this trip due to the amount of walking, and atleast seven hours today!
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:50 pm




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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:58 pm







..Next the wailing wall
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:08 pm





So this is the route that was taken when Jesus was carrying the cross towards the crucifixion, in the second picture that marks where he fell with the cross the first time and some woman gave him some water (can't remember her name)..All of the places that he fell are marked (as stations) along the route to the site of the crucifixion.
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:18 pm





Incidently, the old city is divided into quarters of all the main religions. The only one bit that we didn't get to see was a muslim bit which is only open to muslims, all the other quarters are open to all!
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Re: Going to Palestine, some of legal Israel and some stolen and internationally illegal Israel

Post by Philagain48 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:20 pm

....Off out, will post the site of the crucifixion another time.
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