Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

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Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:00 pm

We have seen al the stories of areas where religion conflicts with law and the lives of ordinary people. We are asked to respect their views all the time but then they do something which utterly calls into question any warrant or deserving of the word. I really do doubt that people with any level of deepset beliefs can ever be part of a progressive, and even moral, society.

I think it's worth highlighting a few of the problems we see:

Jehovass Witnesses denying their children live saving blood transfusions; a Jewish Rabbi telling British Jews the shouldn't be organ donors; Christian B&B owners denying equal service to Homosexual couples; Muslim women forced to wear head coverings; The Catholic Church opposing the use of contraception...

These are but a small few examples of mainstream religion running contrary to modern moral beliefs and scientific revolutions. This dosen't even cover the violence and discord created in certan areas.

Now no-one would deny the comforting aspect of religion; but surely this should be a wholly private affair. Should the law or medical commonsense be allowed to bulldoze over certain religious values? Should the docto in the JW case for instance have stepped in on the childs behalf and gone through with the blood transfusion anyway? Afterall the daughter given the choice may have opted for life...

So is mainstream religion compatible with modern society? Should we STOP respecting these views, and giving them an equal footing at times in law? I'm not talking of an all out ban here. People may still go to church and worship at home; but should religion be marginalized as any kind of influencial force in the running of our country?

Will be interested in all your thoughts Smile

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by victorismyhero on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:22 pm

eilzel wrote:We have seen al the stories of areas where religion conflicts with law and the lives of ordinary people. We are asked to respect their views all the time but then they do something which utterly calls into question any warrant or deserving of the word. I really do doubt that people with any level of deepset beliefs can ever be part of a progressive, and even moral, society.

I think it's worth highlighting a few of the problems we see:

Jehovass Witnesses denying their children live saving blood transfusions; a Jewish Rabbi telling British Jews the shouldn't be organ donors; Christian B&B owners denying equal service to Homosexual couples; Muslim women forced to wear head coverings; The Catholic Church opposing the use of contraception...

These are but a small few examples of mainstream religion running contrary to modern moral beliefs and scientific revolutions. This dosen't even cover the violence and discord created in certan areas.

Now no-one would deny the comforting aspect of religion; but surely this should be a wholly private affair. Should the law or medical commonsense be allowed to bulldoze over certain religious values? Should the docto in the JW case for instance have stepped in on the childs behalf and gone through with the blood transfusion anyway? Afterall the daughter given the choice may have opted for life...

So is mainstream religion compatible with modern society? Should we STOP respecting these views, and giving them an equal footing at times in law? I'm not talking of an all out ban here. People may still go to church and worship at home; but should religion be marginalized as any kind of influencial force in the running of our country?

Will be interested in all your thoughts Smile

it is difficult for me to give a balanced answer to this without accusations of bias, afterall, MY beliefs are hardly "mainstream" Yet in all my experience in pagan ministry, (acting as spiritual advisor, conducting pagan weddings (blessings really, as the actual marriage is of course a civil one), and so on) I cannot remember ANY pagan expressing views that are not compatible with general society. Very often our views are totally incompatible with other mainstream religions, but hey...thats life...But, i think, in general, you will find most pagans are scientifically and ethically up there in the front. long before "christians" accepted gay priests/vicars. the pagans had gay priests and priestesses, the only rite that was closed to them was the great rite in truth (as opposed to the great rite in token) which is a fertility rite, and i think even our most ardent supporter of gay rights would admit that for gays to carry out the great rite in truth would be a logical (and biological) absurdity. And since the great rite in token is accepted as sufficient substitute there is in fact no station in the pagan hierarchy that is closed to them. pagans have often argued on ethical issues such as tissue donation, stem cell treatment etc, generally in an affirmitive manner. We may not see human life as uniquely sacred, but we do enjoy life, and call for medical science to "get on with it and produce those cures", our healers can only do so much scratch

i'm not going to make a mega post on this.....you will get fed up with me pushing the pagan adgenda......but mainstream religion is a bit like a dinosaur....it fails to evolve....so its nolonger fit for the purpose, certainly its not fit for inclusion in "real life" as you say...what folks do in private is their business...but out in the secular world...nah...get rid of it...

Even the pagans dont try to interfere with what is "in the world"....thats not our way.
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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:03 pm

You are right Victor. And I think the reason the country in recent years has actually taken a liking to the idea of Paganism is for exactly that reason.

People have simply had enough of religious (mainly Abrahamic) people putting their beliefs directly against commonsense, law and modern moral thinking. This is visible at worse with some followers of Islam but also with the rest. Smaller religious groups (inc Hindus and Buddhists as well as Pagans), don't do this, and no one ever seems to come into direct conflict with them (in this country anyway).

~On your pagan agenda though. I was thinking. Why not make a thread. Where anyone can enquire and you can explain. I for one would be very interested. I'll confess on forums I'm not one to read blocks of text, but done in such a way it might be pretty good Very Happy

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:20 pm

Hi Eilzel, if you go to this website you may learn a bit more about Paganism.[b] It is the leading Pagan Federation for the UK

www.paganfed.org

As Victor has said, paganism is very tolerant and I think basically, they just want to be left alone to get on with their own beliefs and practices. And why not. To my mind paganism is a fresh-clean uncluttered way of life without the chains of orthodox religion holding you back.

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:35 pm

I think I am more pagan than Christian as I loathe how humans are destroying our planet's biodiversity...

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:02 pm

You're quite right Seren. But not only has religion done that[b] but in many cases it holds back the future potential of individuals and nations, as we see in the East. I've often mentioned the Witnesses but with good reason, it appals me how their children are indoctrinated from infancy upwards, with incorrect knowledge of the world's creative history, and of course evolution. To believe that the Earth and life was created around 4,000 BC is laughable, but their kids believe it because they are being taught such rubbish by their parents and elders.

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:09 pm

stardesk wrote:You're quite right Seren. But not only has religion done that[b] but in many cases it holds back the future potential of individuals and nations, as we see in the East. I've often mentioned the Witnesses but with good reason, it appals me how their children are indoctrinated from infancy upwards, with incorrect knowledge of the world's creative history, and of course evolution. To believe that the Earth and life was created around 4,000 BC is laughable, but their kids believe it because they are being taught such rubbish by their parents and elders.

This appalls me too Star. It flies in the face of absolute facts; how can we respect their right to teach such garbage? Why are we allowing them to have their kids believe something that would have them laughed at if they talked about such things to most well thinking people?

The roots of this religious nonesense go deep. We should not have to stand by and allow these things to be taught. Schools should teach certain things as fact and be allowed to discredit wild assertions put forward by religion. With that, discrediting the prejudices and backward practices of these ancient doctrines will also begin to wear thin among younger generations.

Richard Dawkins did a documentary last year called 'The Root of all Evil' on Faith Schools. I never saw it, might have to find it and give it a look this weekend Smile

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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by victorismyhero on Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:38 am

eilzel wrote:You are right Victor. And I think the reason the country in recent years has actually taken a liking to the idea of Paganism is for exactly that reason.

People have simply had enough of religious (mainly Abrahamic) people putting their beliefs directly against commonsense, law and modern moral thinking. This is visible at worse with some followers of Islam but also with the rest. Smaller religious groups (inc Hindus and Buddhists as well as Pagans), don't do this, and no one ever seems to come into direct conflict with them (in this country anyway).

~On your pagan agenda though. I was thinking. Why not make a thread. Where anyone can enquire and you can explain. I for one would be very interested. I'll confess on forums I'm not one to read blocks of text, but done in such a way it might be pretty good Very Happy


just for you Very Happy "for those who are curious"
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Re: Is mainstream Religion compatible with modern society?

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:30 am

eilzel wrote:We have seen al the stories of areas where religion conflicts with law and the lives of ordinary people. We are asked to respect their views all the time but then they do something which utterly calls into question any warrant or deserving of the word. I really do doubt that people with any level of deepset beliefs can ever be part of a progressive, and even moral, society.

I think it's worth highlighting a few of the problems we see:

Jehovass Witnesses denying their children live saving blood transfusions; a Jewish Rabbi telling British Jews the shouldn't be organ donors; Christian B&B owners denying equal service to Homosexual couples; Muslim women forced to wear head coverings; The Catholic Church opposing the use of contraception...

These are but a small few examples of mainstream religion running contrary to modern moral beliefs and scientific revolutions. This dosen't even cover the violence and discord created in certan areas.

Now no-one would deny the comforting aspect of religion; but surely this should be a wholly private affair. Should the law or medical commonsense be allowed to bulldoze over certain religious values? Should the docto in the JW case for instance have stepped in on the childs behalf and gone through with the blood transfusion anyway? Afterall the daughter given the choice may have opted for life...

So is mainstream religion compatible with modern society? Should we STOP respecting these views, and giving them an equal footing at times in law? I'm not talking of an all out ban here. People may still go to church and worship at home; but should religion be marginalized as any kind of influencial force in the running of our country?

Will be interested in all your thoughts Smile

BUMP- well mainstream religious peeps, is it?

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