Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

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Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:46 pm


Cameron told his party last year that he "passionately" advocates the change

David Cameron always knew he had a fight on his hands when he espoused the cause of gay marriage. But the onslaught from Scotland's Catholic leader has sharply raised the temperature.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien wrote in the Sunday Telegraph the plan was a "grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right". He added the change would "shame the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world".

That brought a hefty rebuff from the first openly lesbian Conservative MP Margot James, who accused him of "scaremongering" and using "apocalyptic language". But leaving aside the vehemence of the cardinal's rhetoric, the idea has sparked a cultural battle within the Tory party.

Mr Cameron told his party last year that he "passionately" advocates the change: not in spite of, but because he is a Conservative. And in response to a claim from a Tory MP earlier this week that the suggestion is "nuts", the Home Office gave the government's definitive line. It said: "If a couple love each other .. they should have the option of a civil marriage irrespective of their sexual orientation."

Equalities minister Lynne Featherstone is due to launch a consultation on the plans later this this month.


Plans to legalise gay marriage have sparked a battle amongst Tories

When it comes to the Commons vote there is certain to be a significant backbench rebellion by Tory MPs, including potentially some ministers. But, thanks to backing from the Labour Party, the measure will be passed by the Commons. However, it will further estrange Mr Cameron from those in his party who have never quite trusted him, politically or socially.

Tony Blair had the same problem with many Labour activists, who suspected him of being a closet Tory. But the argument over gay rights and the church has a long and fearsome history.

Henry VIII made male homosexuality a capital offence, and his daughter set fire to people who did not support Catholicism. In that context, today's debate could be seen as a model of moderation.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16182080

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:49 pm

The question is I suppose, does the Church OWN marriage.

I don't think so. It can be an entirely civic concept.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:54 pm

The thing is there are religious groups that want this as well. I don't so we would shame ourselves, as I don't some of the most progressive countries already have, including some very Catholic ones at that.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:26 am

eilzel wrote:The thing is there are religious groups that want this as well. I don't so we would shame ourselves, as I don't some of the most progressive countries already have, including some very Catholic ones at that.
Why can't it be both: religious marriages and civil marriages?

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:21 am

I am much more sanguione about this than I used to be and on balance the gay lobby has won the argument with me.



However I want the religious view to be given due regard as well. As David says civil marraiges shouldn't present a problem to religious people or for that matter Tory MPs. Respect those churches though that don't want gay marraige.



My concern is those churhes will be targetted by hate campaigns by the gay militants. Live and let live then there shouldn't be tyhe nedd for confrontation.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:16 am

I really dont understand why gay couples would want to be married in a church that considers them to be wrong or against Gods teaching.

What ever your view of religion it is very important to some people and surely their views should be considered?.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:32 pm

Nems Again wrote:I really dont understand why gay couples would want to be married in a church that considers them to be wrong or against Gods teaching.

What ever your view of religion it is very important to some people and surely their views should be considered?.
Totally agree Nems! I myself will not get married in a Catholic Church but if other Gay Couples wish to: fine...


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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:12 pm

Don't see anything wrong with a homosexual couple having the blessing of their church on their civil partnership if they feel strongly about it. Likewise, no church should be forced to perform such a ceremony if it is against their fundamental beliefs. It's called freedom of choice. The homosexual couple should have no problems finding a religious organisation who believes in blessing such a relationship.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:57 pm

fred bloggs wrote:Don't see anything wrong with a homosexual couple having the blessing of their church on their civil partnership if they feel strongly about it. Likewise, no church should be forced to perform such a ceremony if it is against their fundamental beliefs. It's called freedom of choice. The homosexual couple should have no problems finding a religious organisation who believes in blessing such a relationship.
The key word here is MARRIAGE not blessing Rolling Eyes

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:12 pm

Same thing Davey lad. --- Normal hetrosexual couples have their union blessed by the church in their marriage ceremony in the church. Homosexual couples should also have their union blessed by the church, if that is where they choose to have it conducted. --- Don't see a problem with that. ----- Just don't force any churches to perform such a service if it is against their fundamental beliefs.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:04 pm

Exactly Fred dont force those churches by law to marry gay couples is all I am suggesting. I am worried that religious institutions will be targeted by militants.

Not all gays are as reasoable as you David. Live and let live.

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:30 pm

The trouble could be if those militant's will want to force the issue and have Church's forced in law to have a "right" to have them were couples choice...

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Re: Gay Marriage Spells Trouble For Tory Harmony

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:33 pm

redcorvette wrote:The trouble could be if those militant's will want to force the issue and have Church's forced in law to have a "right" to have them were couples choice...



Very much my p[oint. The militant gays represented by Stonewall will I believe not stop attacks until gay sex is compulsory. I jest only a little. I didn't like the way those hoteliers were targetted and believe some gays play the hate card or the discriminatory card all too freely insupport of an agenda which is anything but tolerant.



They preach tolerance these zealots but not for themselves.

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