The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

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The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:39 am

The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR
Statistic show extent to which handouts condemn families to life on benefits
Iain Duncan Smith proposes £26,000 benefit cap
By Daniel Martin

Last updated at 2:05 AM on 9th January 2012

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Proposals: Iain Duncan Smith wants to impose a benefits cap of £26,000, which is the same figure as the income of an average family
Scores of workless families with ten or more children are living on state benefits worth more than £60,000 a year.
Figures released under the Freedom of Information Act show that there are 190 families with at least ten under-18s where one or both of the parents gets an out-of-work benefit.
These families are eligible for £61,183 a year in state support – much more than they could hope to earn if they entered the job market.
A family in work would have to earn £93,000 to be left with this amount of money after tax.
The statistics illustrate the extent to which enormous handouts condemn such families to a life on benefits, because it would not be worth their while to take on work.
One minister has suggested that parents should think twice about having so many children if they cannot support them without the help of benefits.
Nearly 100,000 people on benefits have four or more children, with more than 900 claimants having at least eight.
Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith wants to impose a benefits cap of £26,000 – the income of an average family – on workless families.
Sources say the cap is essential to stop workshy families using extra children as revenue-raisers, getting more child benefit and perhaps a larger house.
But the plan is hitting trouble in the House of Lords, with some Lib Dems arguing that the cap should be set higher.
More...End of something for nothing? New scheme tells jobless: Work for free or lose benefits for THREE years
For years, YOU'VE paid their £2,000-a-week rents. But the housing benefit gravy train's hit the buffers

The Tories are determined the original cap should go through to help bring the costs of the welfare state under control. A crucial vote will be held next week.
Last night Mr Duncan Smith said: ‘Labour left our welfare system in a sorry state, with too many people better off out of work and on benefits than if they entered the working world.
£95,000 - AND STILL THEY'RE NOT HAPPY
Pete and Sam Smith receive £95,000 a year in state benefits to look after their ten children aged one to 15. They live in a four-bedroom house rent-free and the council even pays for breakfast to be delivered.
The Smiths were evicted from their previous home in Bath, leaving it uninhabitable, according to their former landlord who claimed that mattresses and walls were stained with human and animal excrement.
But despite being given a new home by the council in Bristol, Mrs Smith, 36, complained: ‘It’s very cramped. We have four bedrooms with bunk beds for the kids and that’s it. We’ve been told we might not be given a new house for another nine months, which is ridiculous.’
Complaining: Pete and Sam Smith received £95,000 in benefits, live in a four-bedroom house rent free and even have breakfast delivered, but they are still not happy with what they have
She claimed they were so short of money that the children had only one Nintendo Wii games console between them.
She said in September 2010: ‘We do get breakfast delivered but sometimes we have to ring them to remind them and it’s not like proper hot food.
‘It’s usually beans, tinned tomatoes and cereal, which isn’t really enough for us all.’
The couple have not worked since Mr Smith, 40, resigned from the Army in 2001 to care for his wife, who has curvature of the spine. At that time they had three children. The family receive child benefits, disability living allowance, carer’s allowance, tax credits and income support totalling £44,954 a year. They also have a £950-a-week bed-and-breakfast deal where the council pays for breakfasts delivered to their home.
This comes to £49,400, making a grand total of £94,354 a year.
‘It’s not fair that benefit claimants can receive higher incomes than families who are in work, in some cases more than double the average household income. That’s why we’re introducing a cap on benefits – to restore fairness to our welfare system while ensuring that support goes to those who need it.’
Figures released following an FoI request show that there are 140 families with ten children in Britain receiving an out-of-work benefit. Another 30 have 11 children, and 20 families have 12, making a total of 190 with ten children or more.
Pleased: Matthew Sinclair of the Taxpayers' Alliance said that it was only right that the Government is taking action
These families get a range of benefits including jobseekers’ allowance, incapacity benefit, income support and employment and support allowance.
They are also entitled to other handouts, including housing benefit, child tax credits, child benefit and council tax benefit.
A workless family with ten children under the age of 18 could receive around £1,177 a week in benefits if they were claiming all these.
That works out at £61,183 a year, a total of more than £11million for all the families involved. Ministers believe the vast majority of the families will be claiming all the benefits to which they are entitled.
Matthew Sinclair, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: ‘Taxpayers feel that it is unfair that so many claimants are receiving so much more in benefits that many hard-working people.
‘This has to change and it’s right that the Government is taking action.’
It was reported last week that the Government is planning last-minute changes to the controversial cap on benefits for workless families in an attempt to quell a rebellion among Lib Dem peers.
The £26,000 figure is based on average income for all families, including those on benefits, which means it is lower than the income of a family in work. Some Lib Dems argue that the cap should be set higher, to the level of the average income of a family in work.
Just over a year ago, Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt provoked a storm by saying it should not be the state’s responsibility to fund the ever-growing families of the workshy.
He said: ‘The number of children that you have is a choice and what we’re saying is that if people are living on benefits, then they make choices but they also have to have responsibility for those choices.
‘It’s not going to be the role of the state to finance those choices.
‘You can have children but if you are going to ask for support that is more than the average wage that people earn, then we’re saying no, the state shouldn’t support that.
‘That’s not fair on working people who have to pay the taxes to pay those benefits.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083998/The-190-families-children-60-000-benefits-year.html#ixzz1iwcMkEYK

Why do any of us bother to work again, can someone remind me please

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:42 am

I think this person's comment sums it up nicely

OMG My husband and I earn around £65k a year and we have two children. We decided not to have anymore as we really couldn't afford it and we only have 3 bed house. I didn't realize that we could get £95k a year and live rent free if I had more kids which is what I would have wanted. So in effect I stopped having children because I couldn't afford it but I am paying for someone else to have as many as they like.
- Just Me, Down South, 09/1/2012 00:31


Well I know Victor will hang me for this but am going to say it anyway...


BENEFIT BABIES!!

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:07 am

Sitting here with a wry smile of amusement, some of us are old enough to remember the last Tory administration, the politics of turning communities against each other. The politics of fostering resentment and greed, intolerance and exclusion.
Shame we are going to go down that road again.

Oh and in case I missed it, did anyone ever adequately address Victor's point about 5.7 people for every one vacancy?

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:52 am

Nems Again wrote:Sitting here with a wry smile of amusement, some of us are old enough to remember the last Tory administration, the politics of turning communities against each other. The politics of fostering resentment and greed, intolerance and exclusion.
Shame we are going to go down that road again.

Oh and in case I missed it, did anyone ever adequately address Victor's point about 5.7 people for every one vacancy?

but still a shortage of nurses apparently - another thread

the world's gone mad I tell you - mad!

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Seren wrote:

but still a shortage of nurses apparently - another thread

the world's gone mad I tell you - mad!

Nah, it was ever thus. We ( the peeps) moan and bitch about our lot and each other, conveniently distracted and not noticing that politicians of ALL persuasions are in it for the gravy train, to employ their families, fiddle their expenses and fuck us all into submission and we still vote them back in. What we need is a revolution. We wont get one though, we are a populous of impotent keyboard warriors. Kept stupid on a diet of Corrie and Simon Cowell.

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:25 pm

Nems Again wrote:

Nah, it was ever thus. We ( the peeps) moan and bitch about our lot and each other, conveniently distracted and not noticing that politicians of ALL persuasions are in it for the gravy train, to employ their families, fiddle their expenses and fuck us all into submission and we still vote them back in. What we need is a revolution. We wont get one though, we are a populous of impotent keyboard warriors. Kept stupid on a diet of Corrie and Simon Cowell.

green for that nems - spot on as you so often are

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 pm

Seren wrote:I think this person's comment sums it up nicely



Well I know Victor will hang me for this but am going to say it anyway...


BENEFIT BABIES!!

The thing that frustrates me is that Just Me and many like her who are acting with a conscience are likely to raise responsible adults who will contribute to society.

I know I am stereotyping and for that I apologise but many of those who choose to live on benefits as a way of life seem to pass on that way of life onto their children. Generation after generation of families using what should be a temporary stop gap for a lifetime Evil or Very Mad

Why the hell should I pay for it???

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by victorismyhero on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:05 pm

Seren wrote:I think this person's comment sums it up nicely



Well I know Victor will hang me for this but am going to say it anyway...


BENEFIT BABIES!!

Yeah...well Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah whatever.....

Yes this needs addressing, because of the huge level of money involved, and i think a cap on benefits is possibly the way to prevent it in the future, though it may be that it cant be applied to these very large families....SINCE THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FAMILIES>>>AND TO DO SO WOULD RESULT IN A SERIOUS LEVEL OF POVERTY. What would You suggest...perhaps their kids could be "taken into care ....at what cost?

It is one thing to lay out the rules at the beginning...another to move the goal posts. these present families MAY have, for a number of reasons to be treated as a "legacy" cost however sour a taste that may leave behind... I dont know...what are the alternatives...leave em homeless and starving....perhaps the RW would be happy to have 8 of the kids put down???......Its all very well shouting from the roof tops that this is wrong BUT....whilst it MAY be possible to prevent this happening again in the future....what CAN you do about the situation NOW

But I ask you 110 families...out of how many million...but of course...a convenient sound bite and another twist for the RW to turn the "taxpayers hate" upon those out of work...let CALL the kids of EVERYONE that is out of work "benefit babies" even if they had them BEFORE they lost their job....... THAT is what I object to...the govt with its tame media always at the ready to create a "scandal" for the weak minded public, dumbed down by mindless tv etc...to get their teeth into. No doubt when the bullying starts and the quiet victimisation is underway the torys will be ecstatic...
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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by victorismyhero on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:08 pm

Nems Again wrote:Sitting here with a wry smile of amusement, some of us are old enough to remember the last Tory administration, the politics of turning communities against each other. The politics of fostering resentment and greed, intolerance and exclusion.
Shame we are going to go down that road again.

Oh and in case I missed it, did anyone ever adequately address Victor's point about 5.7 people for every one vacancy?

No nems ....no one did, because apart from making a lot of noise about how badly done to they are...the RW hasnt a clue...in fact it has even less of a clue as to what to do about the REAL problem ...(successive govt failure to ensure a sound jobs base) than the useless LW or the self loathing liberalists.
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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:12 pm

victorismyhero wrote:

No nems ....no one did, because apart from making a lot of noise about how badly done to they are...the RW hasnt a clue...in fact it has even less of a clue as to what to do about the REAL problem ...(successive govt failure to ensure a sound jobs base) than the useless LW or the self loathing liberalists.

I think it would be fair to say Victor, that it has been studiously avoided!

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:21 pm

victorismyhero wrote:

Yeah...well Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah whatever.....

Yes this needs addressing, because of the huge level of money involved, and i think a cap on benefits is possibly the way to prevent it in the future, though it may be that it cant be applied to these very large families....SINCE THEY ALREADY HAVE THE FAMILIES>>>AND TO DO SO WOULD RESULT IN A SERIOUS LEVEL OF POVERTY. What would You suggest...perhaps their kids could be "taken into care ....at what cost?

It is one thing to lay out the rules at the beginning...another to move the goal posts. these present families MAY have, for a number of reasons to be treated as a "legacy" cost however sour a taste that may leave behind... I dont know...what are the alternatives...leave em homeless and starving....perhaps the RW would be happy to have 8 of the kids put down???......Its all very well shouting from the roof tops that this is wrong BUT....whilst it MAY be possible to prevent this happening again in the future....what CAN you do about the situation NOW

But I ask you 110 families...out of how many million...but of course...a convenient sound bite and another twist for the RW to turn the "taxpayers hate" upon those out of work...let CALL the kids of EVERYONE that is out of work "benefit babies" even if they had them BEFORE they lost their job....... THAT is what I object to...the govt with its tame media always at the ready to create a "scandal" for the weak minded public, dumbed down by mindless tv etc...to get their teeth into. No doubt when the bullying starts and the quiet victimisation is underway the torys will be ecstatic...

I don't know why you have got me down as some sort of wicked witch. Surely politicians have to come up with some brilliant plan that means that those who are already in this position are okay but that a cap is put on future befits to prevent all those 10 kids repeating the example of their parents.

All I'm suggesting is that exponentially surely eventually we will run out of money for all this.

Anyway, wheres Fred, am surprised he's not started a thread about the Scottish Referendum on Independence being discussed today.

Well maybe somebody else will start one.

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by victorismyhero on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:29 pm

Seren wrote:

I don't know why you have got me down as some sort of wicked witch. Surely politicians have to come up with some brilliant plan that means that those who are already in this position are okay but that a cap is put on future befits to prevent all those 10 kids repeating the example of their parents.

All I'm suggesting is that exponentially surely eventually we will run out of money for all this.

Anyway, wheres Fred, am surprised he's not started a thread about the Scottish Referendum on Independence being discussed today.

Well maybe somebody else will start one.

Which is my point entirely........and you are right ...if things carry on as they are we WILL run out of money, but the answer does NOT lie in demonising people who are out of work, or incapacitated, genuine and cheats alike...tar all with same brush...which is what camergoon and his propaganda machine is doing, It lies in CREATING proper sustained growth and jobs...not growth to put ££££££ into the already over inflated pockets of the modern day "mill owners" but growth to expand industries and utilities and create JOBS.




edit for addenum......

of course i wouldnt hold my breath waiting for THIS govt to make sure that those presently "in the system " are protected from unfair goal-post moving. We are talking about the NASTY party here.....
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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am

Just been on the radio that parents of 46% of children in the Riverside area of Liverpool, can no longer keep them fed and warm. This has come from Save the Children who warn we are hurtling towards social breakdown.

What then? Strikes, social unrest, civil disobedience? Better bring in some more laws and para militarise the police even more. Make sure they truly are the tool of the state. Divide people and communities between the have and have nots, create a sub underclass of unemployed parents whilst the fatuous morons in Parliament appease the bankers, send all our money away in foreign aid and turn a blind eye to wholesale corporate tax evasion.
Blimey, deja vu anyone?

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:22 am

Nems Again wrote:Just been on the radio that parents of 46% of children in the Riverside area of Liverpool, can no longer keep them fed and warm. This has come from Save the Children who warn we are hurtling towards social breakdown.

What then? Strikes, social unrest, civil disobedience? Better bring in some more laws and para militarise the police even more. Make sure they truly are the tool of the state. Divide people and communities between the have and have nots, create a sub underclass of unemployed parents whilst the fatuous morons in Parliament appease the bankers, send all our money away in foreign aid and turn a blind eye to wholesale corporate tax evasion.
Blimey, deja vu anyone?

Every day Nems, we are going backwards to the 80s!

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Re: The 190 families with ten children who cost you more than £11million in benefits A YEAR

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:44 am

sassy1261 wrote:

Every day Nems, we are going backwards to the 80s!

Now is simply the best time for the Union to end.

I'm all for England to be federal state. it's like the SE and London have zero in common with any other part of the UK.

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