Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by victorismyhero on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:07 am

sassy1261 wrote:

My phone won't post so I don't have the problem! I use it for that strange thing, making phone calls! lol
Oh IS THAT what they are for???

mine is a mini computer...bt thers the problem...its mini on a miniscule scale.

I do also have a 7" android pad which is much better....i get all my emails repeated to it, and thus i am always in touch with the world....
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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:09 am

victorismyhero wrote:
Oh IS THAT what they are for???

mine is a mini computer...bt thers the problem...its mini on a miniscule scale.

I do also have a 7" android pad which is much better....i get all my emails repeated to it, and thus i am always in touch with the world....

I quite like being out of touch with the world sometimes!

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by victorismyhero on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:11 am

sassy1261 wrote:

I quite like being out of touch with the world sometimes!

so do I which is where a bottle of calvados comes in handy drunken
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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:17 am

victorismyhero wrote:

so do I which is where a bottle of calvados comes in handy drunken

I really must get some for Christmas, I love it. Now we have come a long way from Drinky's incorrect figures, and I'm for my bed. Night Victor, enjoy the calvados!

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:43 pm

sassy1261 wrote:The Government gave an example of a teacher retiring on £37,000 getting a pension of £25,000 under its proposals, compared to £19,100 under the current scheme. This is disingenuous. What it didn’t say is that teachers would have to work to 68 for a pension of £25,200 under the proposed scheme, compared with 60 for the pension of £19,100 under the current scheme. This is not a like for like comparison and the Government knows it.

http://www.teachers.org.uk/

Perhaps Drinky's figures were wrong after all.

Sassy, do you honestly believe that given the current (and rising) average life expectancy and the benefit of index linking, a £19,000 a year pension for a public sector employee retiring at 60 is anly longer sustainable?

I retired at 60, three years early out of choice, and had to take an actuarial penalty for doing so.

My pension is far lower than £19,000pa even now, and I had to pay considerably more for it in superannuation contributions than teachers and other public sector employees - particularly those in local government - are paying at present.

I had been paying into a final salary pension scheme and managed to get out two years after Brown's 1997 budget £5 billion a year tax grab on private pension funds, so I was not affected too much by that. However, the scheme had collapsed within a few years because of Gordon Brown's deliberate assault on private pension funds against the express advice of senior Treasury officials and pension advisers on the grounds that it would be "catastrophic" for millions of private sector retirees.

And people wonder why I am viciously anti Labour!

Public sector employees now, generally, are paid better and can retire earlier on pensions that most of we in the private sector can only dream about...yet public sector productivity is lower, absenteeism, particularly through "sickness" is higher and many of them work fewer hours.

Just how much real sympathy from the people who have to pay for all this out of salaries and wages that are being squeezed or even cut - and have been so since 2008 - do those in the public sector expect or, indeed, deserve?

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:22 pm

Sassy is of the view that if the govt are cutting then the staff are being hard done to. It doesn't matter whether we can afford it or not.

Anything the govt does or says is wrong. Tne fact we are borrowing in excess of £500 million per day just to pay todays wages and pensions is it seems irrlevant to the left it is thew Tories cutting just to be mean.

I might add the Fact! that the public sector workers enjoy all they do in excess of the very peop;le who pay for it i.e. private sector workers is also irrlevant.

Of course it isn't irrelevant because the taxpayer is already buckling under the strain and depite the protestations of the left this country cannot borrow more without affecting our triple A status.

I despair quite frankly the unions won't and don't care about pensions this is all about exercising good old left wing power.

The union members are so detached from reality they think that a pension of £25,000 for a person earning £37,000 is penuary. It makes me so mad.

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:24 pm

H20 wrote:Sassy is of the view that if the govt are cutting then the staff are being hard done to. It doesn't matter whether we can afford it or not.

Anything the govt does or says is wrong. Tne fact we are borrowing in excess of £500 million per day just to pay todays wages and pensions is it seems irrlevant to the left it is thew Tories cutting just to be mean.

I might add the Fact! that the public sector workers enjoy all they do in excess of the very peop;le who pay for it i.e. private sector workers is also irrlevant.

Of course it isn't irrelevant because the taxpayer is already buckling under the strain and depite the protestations of the left this country cannot borrow more without affecting our triple A status.

I despair quite frankly the unions won't and don't care about pensions this is all about exercising good old left wing power.

The union members are so detached from reality they think that a pension of £25,000 for a person earning £37,000 is penuary. It makes me so mad.

Being able to find a billion to help fight global warming in Africa seems pretty detached from reality to me.
This government is as crap as the last one, they are all cut from the same cloth these days.

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:37 pm

H20 wrote:Sassy is of the view that if the govt are cutting then the staff are being hard done to. It doesn't matter whether we can afford it or not.

Anything the govt does or says is wrong. Tne fact we are borrowing in excess of £500 million per day just to pay todays wages and pensions is it seems irrlevant to the left it is thew Tories cutting just to be mean.

I might add the Fact! that the public sector workers enjoy all they do in excess of the very peop;le who pay for it i.e. private sector workers is also irrlevant.

Of course it isn't irrelevant because the taxpayer is already buckling under the strain and depite the protestations of the left this country cannot borrow more without affecting our triple A status.

I despair quite frankly the unions won't and don't care about pensions this is all about exercising good old left wing power.

The union members are so detached from reality they think that a pension of £25,000 for a person earning £37,000 is penuary. It makes me so mad.

Well at least talk about the truth. They have never said that figure is penury, in fact the teachers want less, what they are supposed to have £19,500 at aged 60, and not £25,000 aged 68. I don't know if or when you retired Drinky, but people with money often do so early. So thats ok for people with money, but teachers are supposed to work until 68. Well, I'm 66, and retired at 60, on a lot less than that because I stayed at home and looked after my children for many years. I could not begin to image how I would manage if I still have two years left to work. Frankly, I could not have done it. There are people who could, but why the hell should they after paying in to a system for perhaps 40 years. They are not being greedy, they want some of their life while they still have enough energy to enjoy it, how terrible, how wicked.

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:26 am

The bloated public sector is the biggest drain on this nation's finances. Their terms and conditions are so much cushier and their pensions are far greater than the pensions of those of us who have to put our hands in our pockets to pay the greedy sods. Time to make the public sector's pensions equal to those in equivalent jobs in the real world. If this means rounding down, then so be it.

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:57 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

Well at least talk about the truth. They have never said that figure is penury, in fact the teachers want less, what they are supposed to have £19,500 at aged 60, and not £25,000 aged 68. I don't know if or when you retired Drinky, but people with money often do so early. So thats ok for people with money, but teachers are supposed to work until 68. Well, I'm 66, and retired at 60, on a lot less than that because I stayed at home and looked after my children for many years. I could not begin to image how I would manage if I still have two years left to work. Frankly, I could not have done it. There are people who could, but why the hell should they after paying in to a system for perhaps 40 years. They are not being greedy, they want some of their life while they still have enough energy to enjoy it, how terrible, how wicked.

Many private sector retirees could say much the same as they contemplate living out their old age in poverty because of Gordon Brown's deliberate destruction of so many private pension funds.

I wonder how much of the £5 billion a year he effectively plundered from those funds after his 1997 budget went to subsidise the far superior pensions of public sector employees who had protected their own highly privileged position from Labour's original plans for reform... by, as usual, threatening to strike.

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 pm

fred bloggs wrote:The bloated public sector is the biggest drain on this nation's finances. Their terms and conditions are so much cushier and their pensions are far greater than the pensions of those of us who have to put our hands in our pockets to pay the greedy sods. Time to make the public sector's pensions equal to those in equivalent jobs in the real world. If this means rounding down, then so be it.

I wouldn't call them "greedy sods" Fred but I do agree that public sector pensions should be equal to private sector pensions. It infuriates me that public sector workers are saying the proposed action is unfair. As a private sector worker I lost my final salary scheme years ago. Final salary pensions schemes are quite simply unrealistic in today's "real world".

Of course we'd all like final salary pension schemes but times change and we have to change with them. There are many private sector workers with no pension whatsoever No


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Hutton: Pensions Reforms May Not Be Enough

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:43 am


Lord Hutton said the pensions deal on the table was likely to be as good as it was going to get
10:34am UK, Sunday December 04, 2011

The Government's planned overhaul of public sector pensions may not be enough to bring soaring costs under control, according to the Labour peer who carried out a review of the system.

Former Work and Pensions Secretary Lord Hutton said his findings now looked "too optimistic" after UK growth forecasts were significantly downgraded by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR).

In an interview with BBC Radio 4's World This Weekend, Lord Hutton urged unions to accept the deal while it was still on the table. "What the Government have tabled is a perfectly credible offer," he said. "I think it gives significant protection to those close to retirement and very generous accrual rates. What has happened in the last few months confirms the very important point that we can't be sure that over 50 years we will get to a better balance. So let's bring those savings forward as quickly as we can."



However, Lord Hutton acknowledged further discussion was needed on some issues raised by the unions.

"I think the danger with the proposals is that a lot of people on low to moderate incomes. Ministers will say those on under £15,000 don't pay anything and there are graduated increases between £15,000 and £21,000 - but in the current climate that might be enough to persuade large numbers to opt out. The unions have raised some genuine concerns and I hope ministers can look again at some aspects of the way they are planning to increase pensions contributions."

Meanwhile, Prime Minister David Cameron has written to ministerial colleagues to tell them they will share the pensions pain.

The memo, seen by the Mail on Sunday, said: "Our pensions are among the most generous in the public services. We cannot expect public service workers, some of whom are very modestly paid, to take on a burden we are not prepared to assume for ourselves."

Staged rises in contributions over the next three years will see Cabinet ministers paying in 17.9% of their pay to get the same benefits - some £4,000 more. Ministers of state will pay an extra 4%, equivalent to £1,320, while junior ministers face 2.5% hikes costing £592.

The Prime Minister himself will be hardest hit with an additional bill of £4,600 per year.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16123346


I remember being told exactly the same thing a few years ago when we had to vote on changes to our pension scheme "likely to be as good as it was going to get".

No-one wanted to vote yes but the alternative? No

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Re: Public Sector Pension Reforms.......

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