Heaven....

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:02 pm

eilzel wrote:

God gave man the ability to do bad deeds. True, God gave man the ability, reason and excuses to muder, rape, abuse other people etc.

God made a world which he/she/it knew would on occassion kill hundreds, thousands, millions (and in the future maybe billions) of people.

God created a world with diseases that would infect people during procreation (a neccessity) and through various other means.

BUT, God is not cruel Rolling Eyes


Okay, there is no God, so why do you think people commit all these horrendous crimes? Why is the earth out to kill us? Where do the diseases come from?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:12 pm

molly wrote:


Okay, there is no God, so why do you think people commit all these horrendous crimes? Why is the earth out to kill us? Where do the diseases come from?

The earth itself is not out to kill (that would imply conciousness on the earths part), it is simply a living organism that is a result of the big bang. All the bacteria etc that has evolved since has resulted in various diseases that have lethal and negative impacts on different lifeforms. Earthquakes, Tsunamis etc are simply things which happen as a result of how the earth is, and are way beyond the control of man.

Why do people commit crimes and evil acts? This again comes down to evolution as well as the effects of society in a given context. I do not believe that evil exists, I believe anyone is capable of commiting evil acts from birth, but whether they do or not depends on the environment surrounding them and events during a persons life. Though without doubt some a born more susceptible to doing bad things than others. Greed, lust, anger, power- these are all reasons for people acting in evil, monstrous ways. In some cases people may do evil things totally under the impression they are acting in a way that is just.

All this is due of course to natural free will, since (if you believe there is no God) we are simply a product of an ongoing process.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:46 pm

eilzel wrote:

The earth itself is not out to kill (that would imply conciousness on the earths part), it is simply a living organism that is a result of the big bang. All the bacteria etc that has evolved since has resulted in various diseases that have lethal and negative impacts on different lifeforms. Earthquakes, Tsunamis etc are simply things which happen as a result of how the earth is, and are way beyond the control of man.

Why do people commit crimes and evil acts? This again comes down to evolution as well as the effects of society in a given context. I do not believe that evil exists, I believe anyone is capable of commiting evil acts from birth, but whether they do or not depends on the environment surrounding them and events during a persons life. Though without doubt some a born more susceptible to doing bad things than others. Greed, lust, anger, power- these are all reasons for people acting in evil, monstrous ways. In some cases people may do evil things totally under the impression they are acting in a way that is just.

All this is due of course to natural free will, since (if you believe there is no God) we are simply a product of an ongoing process.


I actually agree with a lot of what you have said except substitute evolution for God and take out the big bang Laughing

It has been enlightening and I am going to read up a little on evolution though I cant see it replacing my God, thanks eilzel and stardesk Very Happy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:54 pm

molly wrote:-


I actually agree with a lot of what you have said except substitute evolution for God and take out the big bang Laughing

It has been enlightening and I am going to read up a little on evolution though I cant see it replacing my God, thanks eilzel and stardesk Very Happy

It has been an interesting discussion Molly Smile

Just to say though; whether or not you believe in evolution- and as star points out, it is backed by evidence and generally considered fact- does not meant you cannot also believe in God (unlikley as it is).

The only thing is, if God is responsible, with all the good and bad, then although he may not be evil, he is definitley one cold, callous diety. Night x

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:05 pm

You dissing my God? lol!

Night eilzel x Very Happy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:04 pm

molly wrote:


I actually agree with a lot of what you have said except substitute evolution for God and take out the big bang Laughing

It has been enlightening and I am going to read up a little on evolution though I cant see it replacing my God, thanks eilzel and stardesk Very Happy

Why does it have to be god OR evolution? can your god not be guiding the changes? or set in stone the physical/chemical rules which allow evolution to occur?

More and more people in America are beginning to accept evolution as being controlled by god.

I don't agree with them but it is interesting to see

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:16 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

Hi FTL,

Well I don't believe in a God, but I don't believe we disappear. I think the essential 'us' continues, even if only as an energy. The thing that happened recently totally confirmed to me what I thought. My daughter, though ill, had such a spark and I could see it was totally gone and I just knew the essence that was her could not have just 'gone' from one minute to the next. There was an experiment in a hospital in America years ago. Sounds very macabre, but they had the legs of beds of those that they knew would die on special scales. As they died, the scales all registered a slight loss in weight, even though nothing had changed. Wish I could find the link. I just think that the individual energy that makes us 'us' is inextinguishable, energy changes, it never goes.

Hi Sassy,

I know the experiment you were on about, not got a link, but to help you find it, it was done by Dr Duncan Macdougall, around 1905. His experiments came up with an average of 21 grams, which he stated was the weight of the human soul, but he only tested about 10 people so not really conclusive, and further results showed that this was likely to be the exhalation of breath in the lungs that caused the loss.



I'm the other end of the scale from you, I'm of the belief, that once dead you are dead, which encourages me to make the most of this life and enjoy it as much as possible.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:37 pm

molly wrote:Science isn't absolute either http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selection-genes-wrong

Do we know for certain that the sun will go supernova?

We all know we will die one day and whether it is an illness, a natural disaster or a tragic accident there are many ways to leave the world but it doesn't mean God is cruel it is unfortunately a fact of life. I think the earth has served us well so far.

Molly,

the link you posted raises a few interesting points, but the title is very misleading, it is an expansion of what Darwin said and a further understanding of what were previously anomolies.

The study on food intake is one I know quite a lot about from my own research (into food security), A friend of mine is looking into the obesity problem in the UK and looking at MtDNA, his research is beginning to see links between people who are more likely to be obese and their grandmother going through the rationing in WW2. He has some tentative results showing that the mitochondria have changed the way they are producing energy in cells.

It's also not a new thing and no different to Darwin's explanation that organisms adapt to their environment.

They hen story may not be down to genetics though, epigenetics tends to 'skip' a generation (for good reason) but could be linked to another good story about the forth road bridge. After it was built the had a problem with seagulls and Pigeons so they used a gas gun that made a bang every 7 minutes and scare off the birds, After a while the birds would return and then be scared by the bang again. After a few months they learned that there was no danger so got less of a fright, when the gun went off again they wouldn't fly off but kinds just wince and bob down a little. When the engineers realised this wasn't working anymore they removed the gas gun. but even now the birds bob down every 7 minutes, even though they are a few generations on and there is no bangs to scare them.

I'll try to look more into the hen study as it may just be down to stress causing DNA damage, which we already know to happen.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:51 pm

I'm the king wrote:

Why does it have to be god OR evolution? can your god not be guiding the changes? or set in stone the physical/chemical rules which allow evolution to occur?

More and more people in America are beginning to accept evolution as being controlled by god.

I don't agree with them but it is interesting to see

True. It's this whole 'Intelligent Design' drivel. It is understandable, they can't argue science so they adapt it, and as Star mentioned above and Dawkins writes about they will fill in the gaps with God where science has yet to find answers.

They don't realize ID actually damages their religious credibility even further, since falling back on ID illegitamizes religious faith entirely Twisted Evil

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:47 am

Good morning friends. You will see below a rather long piece, for which I apologise, which I've extracted from an article I did some years ago. I know Eilzel and some others will, hopefully, agree with it, but my intention is to try to help people to think on a different level, enabling them to understand the opposing views to a God.

LIFE & EVERYTHING
There are many theories, philosophical arguments, and theological discussions concerning the origins of life. Some say God was responsible, others that it was natural selection, and there are those who think we are the product of alien intervention and seeding. Who is right? Who is wrong? I do not know all the answers and can only expound my own reasoning based on many years of experience, study, observation and understanding. Some will call it blasphemous, whilst others might applaud it. Whatever!
Starting at the very bottom and basic line on the scale of life, scientists in Antarctica have found evidence of microscopic life forms deep in the ice. At the bottom of the Atlantic, around hot vents in the ocean floor, various life forms have been found. In eastern Europe, in deep caves that haven’t seen the light of day for thousands of years, various creatures exist. In the very air we breathe there are organisms, a myriad species of insects, and many species of birds. On the land of course, there are thousands of species of mobile animals, and plant life that is sedentary. Life in the seas follows the same sequence of events. No matter where you go on this planet of ours there exists a bewildering manifestation of nature.
From my perspective the very planet itself is a living, thriving organism though, to our senses, it is just a compacted ball of various mineral elements. Though it moves around the sun in an orbit pre-determined by gravity, and has not the ability to move in a path chosen by its own consciousness, it is no less alive than we humans. Like any other organism, including Mankind, it knows good health, when the earth is still and calm. It knows sickness, displayed visibly by earthquakes and volcanoes. Like all animal life, we humans included, it has parasites within it and upon its surface. It carries upon its back an abundance of life forms which feed off it and each other. Apparently every year many tons of dust and debris falls upon our planet from space, thereby adding to its larder. The earth also feeds off the sun’s energy and that which comes from the galaxy itself. A multitudinous, bewildering array of life forms.
As some of you may know, there exists a scientific-astronomical body known as SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. They and many others speculate on whether this is the only planet in the universe that contains life. I can only say: How naïve! I’m not postulating the existence of UFOs but it is inconceivable that this is the only planet out of what must be billions throughout the universe, that supports life. Life exists in abundance. Wherever and whenever the conditions are favourable it will seed itself and grow. It will use all and every means possible to mutate into many and various offshoots. No matter how long it takes it will improve on itself, mutating, changing, adapting, utilizing and using all means possible to keep itself alive. And I cannot help but think that modern day illnesses, diseases and viruses that are creeping across the globe, are Life’s way of protecting itself from a threat: Man’s rape and desecration of Life’s home and offspring. A prime example of this protective mode is influenza. How many times has it mutated since vaccines were discovered and used against it?
Those of you who like Sci-Fi will know what I mean by shape changers or shifters. That is how I see life. She changes, modifies, utilizes wherever she is, to suit the environment. God, from that perspective, does not come into the equation, for His days of creation are flawed as is obvious to anyone willing to think about it and face reality and the facts. And that’s a story for another day.


And just to add to the vagaries of our planet, don't forget the 230,000 people who died in the horrendous Asian tsunami. Was the Devil responsible, as Creationists shout out, or was it a natural event on a turbulent planet?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:47 pm

There is a lot there stardesk Shocked I think I will have read it again.

Though can I ask one question please, the tsunami killed 230,000 why, if God created the earth, does this makes him cruel but if it is a natural event on a turbulant planet is this somehow okay?


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:02 pm

I'm the king wrote:

Why does it have to be god OR evolution? can your god not be guiding the changes? or set in stone the physical/chemical rules which allow evolution to occur?

More and more people in America are beginning to accept evolution as being controlled by god.

I don't agree with them but it is interesting to see


I thought it had to be one or the other that evolution and the big bang theory proved that God doesn't exist.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:25 pm

stardesk wrote:Good morning friends. You will see below a rather long piece, for which I apologise, which I've extracted from an article I did some years ago. I know Eilzel and some others will, hopefully, agree with it, but my intention is to try to help people to think on a different level, enabling them to understand the opposing views to a God.

LIFE & EVERYTHING
There are many theories, philosophical arguments, and theological discussions concerning the origins of life. Some say God was responsible, others that it was natural selection, and there are those who think we are the product of alien intervention and seeding. Who is right? Who is wrong? I do not know all the answers and can only expound my own reasoning based on many years of experience, study, observation and understanding. Some will call it blasphemous, whilst others might applaud it. Whatever!
Starting at the very bottom and basic line on the scale of life, scientists in Antarctica have found evidence of microscopic life forms deep in the ice. At the bottom of the Atlantic, around hot vents in the ocean floor, various life forms have been found. In eastern Europe, in deep caves that haven’t seen the light of day for thousands of years, various creatures exist. In the very air we breathe there are organisms, a myriad species of insects, and many species of birds. On the land of course, there are thousands of species of mobile animals, and plant life that is sedentary. Life in the seas follows the same sequence of events. No matter where you go on this planet of ours there exists a bewildering manifestation of nature.
From my perspective the very planet itself is a living, thriving organism though, to our senses, it is just a compacted ball of various mineral elements. Though it moves around the sun in an orbit pre-determined by gravity, and has not the ability to move in a path chosen by its own consciousness, it is no less alive than we humans. Like any other organism, including Mankind, it knows good health, when the earth is still and calm. It knows sickness, displayed visibly by earthquakes and volcanoes. Like all animal life, we humans included, it has parasites within it and upon its surface. It carries upon its back an abundance of life forms which feed off it and each other. Apparently every year many tons of dust and debris falls upon our planet from space, thereby adding to its larder. The earth also feeds off the sun’s energy and that which comes from the galaxy itself. A multitudinous, bewildering array of life forms.
As some of you may know, there exists a scientific-astronomical body known as SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. They and many others speculate on whether this is the only planet in the universe that contains life. I can only say: How naïve! I’m not postulating the existence of UFOs but it is inconceivable that this is the only planet out of what must be billions throughout the universe, that supports life. Life exists in abundance. Wherever and whenever the conditions are favourable it will seed itself and grow. It will use all and every means possible to mutate into many and various offshoots. No matter how long it takes it will improve on itself, mutating, changing, adapting, utilizing and using all means possible to keep itself alive. And I cannot help but think that modern day illnesses, diseases and viruses that are creeping across the globe, are Life’s way of protecting itself from a threat: Man’s rape and desecration of Life’s home and offspring. A prime example of this protective mode is influenza. How many times has it mutated since vaccines were discovered and used against it?
Those of you who like Sci-Fi will know what I mean by shape changers or shifters. That is how I see life. She changes, modifies, utilizes wherever she is, to suit the environment. God, from that perspective, does not come into the equation, for His days of creation are flawed as is obvious to anyone willing to think about it and face reality and the facts. And that’s a story for another day.


And just to add to the vagaries of our planet, don't forget the 230,000 people who died in the horrendous Asian tsunami. Was the Devil responsible, as Creationists shout out, or was it a natural event on a turbulent planet?

Fascinating read Star alien

I had never thought of it that way actually, and it does make ALOT of sense; more sense than anything I've heard before in fact!

^^^ Molly. The answer to your question should actually be glaring obvious. IF earth is simply a turbulent planet (which it is) with no maker, and simply another part of the chaos that is the universe- then how can it be cruel? To be cruel requires a thinking mind or conciousness, basically an ability to care and create. Earth is none of those things.

Whereas God, well he has created, I assume he cares or at least can care. He has a conciousness of sorts. So if he created a world deliberatley, knowing what it is capable of and what it could do to us. Well surely that's a bit cruel.


Last edited by eilzel on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:29 pm

Hi folks. Quite right Eilzel, IF God is responsible for creation then indeed, he is cruel beyond belief. Being an all-knowing, supreme deity he would have known of the future disasters and tragic their consequences.

I spent some time gathering natural disaster information, mostly historical covering just the last 2,000 years. My calculations ended with a mind-blowing, staggering, 400,000,000 (four hundred million) deaths!

My word, what a beautiful paradise our loving father created.

Sorry about the sarcasm but come on you Creationists, try to defend the logic in that. Are the Haitians supposed to say prayers of 'thank you Father for the lovely earthquake?' Are the spirits of 230,000 tsunami victims dancing in heaven and giving praise?

If you're going to say Satan is responsible then all I can say is: Satan, to be able to achieve such momentous disasters, must be as powerful as God, therefore on a par with God. And that of course is not how he is portrayed in the Bible. So yet again we have glaringly obvious contradictions.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:08 pm

stardesk wrote:Good morning friends. You will see below a rather long piece, for which I apologise, which I've extracted from an article I did some years ago. I know Eilzel and some others will, hopefully, agree with it, but my intention is to try to help people to think on a different level, enabling them to understand the opposing views to a God.

LIFE & EVERYTHING
There are many theories, philosophical arguments, and theological discussions concerning the origins of life. Some say God was responsible, others that it was natural selection, and there are those who think we are the product of alien intervention and seeding. Who is right? Who is wrong? I do not know all the answers and can only expound my own reasoning based on many years of experience, study, observation and understanding. Some will call it blasphemous, whilst others might applaud it. Whatever!
Starting at the very bottom and basic line on the scale of life, scientists in Antarctica have found evidence of microscopic life forms deep in the ice. At the bottom of the Atlantic, around hot vents in the ocean floor, various life forms have been found. In eastern Europe, in deep caves that haven’t seen the light of day for thousands of years, various creatures exist. In the very air we breathe there are organisms, a myriad species of insects, and many species of birds. On the land of course, there are thousands of species of mobile animals, and plant life that is sedentary. Life in the seas follows the same sequence of events. No matter where you go on this planet of ours there exists a bewildering manifestation of nature.
From my perspective the very planet itself is a living, thriving organism though, to our senses, it is just a compacted ball of various mineral elements. Though it moves around the sun in an orbit pre-determined by gravity, and has not the ability to move in a path chosen by its own consciousness, it is no less alive than we humans. Like any other organism, including Mankind, it knows good health, when the earth is still and calm. It knows sickness, displayed visibly by earthquakes and volcanoes. Like all animal life, we humans included, it has parasites within it and upon its surface. It carries upon its back an abundance of life forms which feed off it and each other. Apparently every year many tons of dust and debris falls upon our planet from space, thereby adding to its larder. The earth also feeds off the sun’s energy and that which comes from the galaxy itself. A multitudinous, bewildering array of life forms.
As some of you may know, there exists a scientific-astronomical body known as SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. They and many others speculate on whether this is the only planet in the universe that contains life. I can only say: How naïve! I’m not postulating the existence of UFOs but it is inconceivable that this is the only planet out of what must be billions throughout the universe, that supports life. Life exists in abundance. Wherever and whenever the conditions are favourable it will seed itself and grow. It will use all and every means possible to mutate into many and various offshoots. No matter how long it takes it will improve on itself, mutating, changing, adapting, utilizing and using all means possible to keep itself alive. And I cannot help but think that modern day illnesses, diseases and viruses that are creeping across the globe, are Life’s way of protecting itself from a threat: Man’s rape and desecration of Life’s home and offspring. A prime example of this protective mode is influenza. How many times has it mutated since vaccines were discovered and used against it?
Those of you who like Sci-Fi will know what I mean by shape changers or shifters. That is how I see life. She changes, modifies, utilizes wherever she is, to suit the environment. God, from that perspective, does not come into the equation, for His days of creation are flawed as is obvious to anyone willing to think about it and face reality and the facts. And that’s a story for another day.


And just to add to the vagaries of our planet, don't forget the 230,000 people who died in the horrendous Asian tsunami. Was the Devil responsible, as Creationists shout out, or was it a natural event on a turbulent planet?


Okay, I do get the evolving, but to me it seems too intelligent to have been an accident. Therefore God is in the equation.

As for the natural disasters the one certainty in life is that we die, it does sound frightening when 230,000 are taken but if they have gone to the heaven I think is waiting for me then they will be happy and at peace. Therefore I cannot see God as cruel.


Now I am starting to sound like you know who Embarassed I think we can agree to disagree before I become all holy holy Cool

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:21 pm

Hello Molly. Yes a fair point, agreeing to disagree. We all have our own views and beliefs and, I suppose, none of us really knows the truth, only what we want to believe and that which satisfies our own personal peace of mind through life, and what to expect at the end of that life.

Tomorrow I'll post on here a short poem I wrote which puts everything I said above into just a few lines. Then all will be clear re my views and beliefs on evolution as opposed to creation.

Night night.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:42 pm

Night stardesk and thank you for your patience Cool Very Happy

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:44 am

Morning folks. Molly, here’s the piece that encapsulates in a nutshell what I was saying earlier about life and everything. The middle verse is the explanation. The reference to Gaia is a means of bringing the whole issue down to a personal level. Gaia, as you probably know, was the ancient Greek Mother goddess and creator. But in scientific circles the name is used to mean our planet and the life upon it.

THE JOURNEY

I forced my snorting charger down the paths between the stars, through empty, infinite space.
Forward, forward, slacken not your mighty speed. Onward, onward, seek and find another race.
Hot, flaming belly, push harder, force your breath to straining flanks.
Step lively faithful steed ere we sup yon supernova’s burning death.

A thousand eternities did we traverse, aye, and the same amount of universe.
Past myriads of galaxies we’ve hurled, down past weird nebula and maternity of suns, dead and born again a million times.
Down…down again, deep…so…deep. Infinity! Where is your timeless bend? What your confines? Where the end? How near, how far Eternity? Ageless yet so young, binding yet so boundless. Wondrously prolific yet so lifeless, you create to destroy, destroy to create, innocently conquering, insatiate!

Up, up and down, forward and backward you flow and yet, though all is movement
how still you seem to be to trusty steed and I as through the unbounded universe we pass in awe.
On…on, into hypnotic void of deep space…….
Beloved Gaia, I have seen your face.
------------------------------------------------
The whole thing postulates the never ending cycle of universal life. Something is born, lives its life-span, then dies, but out of the chaos and destruction new life is born. This is seen in the galaxy where we have billions of tons of debris floating around. The debris from an exploding star or destroyed planet will eventually form into another star or planets, asteroids or meteorites, these in their turn will foster new life. And so it goes on, eternally.


God, in this context, has no meaning, no relevance.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:08 am

molly wrote:


I thought it had to be one or the other that evolution and the big bang theory proved that God doesn't exist.

I don't think they do, evolution shows animals have changed, it doesn't say god didn't start it all off and make the 'rules'. same with the big bang.

It maybe means that the bible/koran etc aren't real or, at least, not literal, but I don't think it rules out a god.

I don't believe in god, not because of evolution or the big bang but because I don't see any evidence of there being one. I may be wrong. One thing I am 'sure' of is that is there is a god he had nothing to do with any of the worlds religions.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:03 pm

A short story:

In 1979, my ex and I were going camping. We were driving on a 2 lane road in the mountains, with sharp curves, and steep drop-offs. The ex was driving, and turned to look at me to say something. I looked at him. Neither of us noticed he had drifted into the other lane towards oncoming traffic. A very calm, kind, MALE voice spoke in my head. It said; "Pam, turn your head". I did. We were in the path of an oncoming, very large truck. I screamed, the ex swung the car back into our lane, missing the truck by maybe 5 feet short of a head on collision. We were travelling 60 miles per hour. We would both have been killed instantly. I had never heard the voice before, nor since.

To this day, there is no scientific explanation as to what happend. I was not drinking, nor on any drugs. I was only 19 years old, and in great health. I have to take it purely on Faith that it was one of God's angels speaking to me, and I was saved because my work on earth was not done yet, it wasn't "my time". I divorced, re-married, and bore two sons. If I had been killed that day, they never would have been born. Maybe they have some purpose to fulfill here. I don't know, but that incident is what convinced me that God and his angels are real.

I don't push my views on others, but it gives me comfort to think that there may be something to look forward to besides this hateful, sinful world we live in today.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:43 pm

justanAmericangal wrote:A short story:

In 1979, my ex and I were going camping. We were driving on a 2 lane road in the mountains, with sharp curves, and steep drop-offs. The ex was driving, and turned to look at me to say something. I looked at him. Neither of us noticed he had drifted into the other lane towards oncoming traffic. A very calm, kind, MALE voice spoke in my head. It said; "Pam, turn your head". I did. We were in the path of an oncoming, very large truck. I screamed, the ex swung the car back into our lane, missing the truck by maybe 5 feet short of a head on collision. We were travelling 60 miles per hour. We would both have been killed instantly. I had never heard the voice before, nor since.

To this day, there is no scientific explanation as to what happend. I was not drinking, nor on any drugs. I was only 19 years old, and in great health. I have to take it purely on Faith that it was one of God's angels speaking to me, and I was saved because my work on earth was not done yet, it wasn't "my time". I divorced, re-married, and bore two sons. If I had been killed that day, they never would have been born. Maybe they have some purpose to fulfill here. I don't know, but that incident is what convinced me that God and his angels are real.

I don't push my views on others, but it gives me comfort to think that there may be something to look forward to besides this hateful, sinful world we live in today.

Not really anything speciall about this story really, it could just be your own concious, I have had times and many others, where people can have a second sense of something happening, I don't think this is down to anything devine, just something we have had since the beginning, an awareness of danger.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:16 pm

justanAmericangal wrote:A short story:

In 1979, my ex and I were going camping. We were driving on a 2 lane road in the mountains, with sharp curves, and steep drop-offs. The ex was driving, and turned to look at me to say something. I looked at him. Neither of us noticed he had drifted into the other lane towards oncoming traffic. A very calm, kind, MALE voice spoke in my head. It said; "Pam, turn your head". I did. We were in the path of an oncoming, very large truck. I screamed, the ex swung the car back into our lane, missing the truck by maybe 5 feet short of a head on collision. We were travelling 60 miles per hour. We would both have been killed instantly. I had never heard the voice before, nor since.

To this day, there is no scientific explanation as to what happend. I was not drinking, nor on any drugs. I was only 19 years old, and in great health. I have to take it purely on Faith that it was one of God's angels speaking to me, and I was saved because my work on earth was not done yet, it wasn't "my time". I divorced, re-married, and bore two sons. If I had been killed that day, they never would have been born. Maybe they have some purpose to fulfill here. I don't know, but that incident is what convinced me that God and his angels are real.

I don't push my views on others, but it gives me comfort to think that there may be something to look forward to besides this hateful, sinful world we live in today.

I don't want to take anything away from your story, because if it gives you comfort then we all need that. I have very recently had a very similar experience, of hearing a voice, but under entirely different circumstances and I think it was more my memories that did it. You all know of my recent loss. My daughter had a VERY inappropriate sense of humour on occasions. My friend had taken me to the undertakers and I was sitting in the front of the car, with him driving. As we followed the way out, round the back of the building, some of the staff were outsider. I suddenly, as clear as a bell, heard her say 'It would be just my luck Mum if a nechrophiliac worked here!' I completely cracked up and my friend thought I had gone mad, but when I told him he had to stop the car as he was laughing so much. I know it wasn't her, just the memory of something she might say, but in that instance she was with me again. Our minds are funny things.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:17 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

I don't want to take anything away from your story, because if it gives you comfort then we all need that. I have very recently had a very similar experience, of hearing a voice, but under entirely different circumstances and I think it was more my memories that did it. You all know of my recent loss. My daughter had a VERY inappropriate sense of humour on occasions. My friend had taken me to the undertakers and I was sitting in the front of the car, with him driving. As we followed the way out, round the back of the building, some of the staff were outsider. I suddenly, as clear as a bell, heard her say 'It would be just my luck Mum if a nechrophiliac worked here!' I completely cracked up and my friend thought I had gone mad, but when I told him he had to stop the car as he was laughing so much. I know it wasn't her, just the memory of something she might say, but in that instance she was with me again. Our minds are funny things.

Why couldn't it be your daughter speaking to you? I know you miss her very much, and it gave you comfort to hear her voice, didn't it? Smile My mother died when I was 7, and for weeks I would walk by our sitting room, and see her out of the corner of my eye sitting in her chair. Clear as day. It didnt frighten me, it comforted me.

Again, I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone. But I cannot believe that we just spontaneously emerged from some primordial ooze and morphed into the intelligent beings we are today.

And I don't believe my Conscience or sub-conscience had nothing to do with my sensing there was a truck speeding directly towards us. Don't people normally think in their own voice? I do. I heard a distinctly different voice in my head, and nobody I recognized. I choose to believe there is something better waiting for me.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:24 pm

justanAmericangal wrote:

Why couldn't it be your daughter speaking to you? I know you miss her very much, and it gave you comfort to hear her voice, didn't it? Smile My mother died when I was 7, and for weeks I would walk by our sitting room, and see her out of the corner of my eye sitting in her chair. Clear as day. It didnt frighten me, it comforted me.

Again, I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone. But I cannot believe that we just spontaneously emerged from some primordial ooze and morphed into the intelligent beings we are today.

And I don't believe my Conscience or sub-conscience had nothing to do with my sensing there was a truck speeding directly towards us. Don't people normally think in their own voice? I do. I heard a distinctly different voice in my head, and nobody I recognized. I choose to believe there is something better waiting for me.

Good evenin' Gal x

Now I'm afraid I agree with didge and sassy here. Your mind and conciousness can play tricks with you at the most bizarre of times. It dosen't mean it must be God. Imagine a Hindu, he might hear something similar, and attribute it to Ramah or Vishnu or someone like that. What of the atheist who hears such a voice, we'd attribute it to our mind without a thought.

Now I'm sure the ideal of primordial ooze does seem a little, I suppose, glum. BUT, if God put us here, why did he make it so in the end our planet will be destroyed along with all life on it? Why does he make some of us die horrible slow and painful deaths? Why is it always the most faithful places on earth that suffer most? And the sinful ones suffer least?

I appreciate why you'd want to believe, and do not begrudge anyone who does (I was Christened, my family are mostly Christian, CofE). But this is a forum, so thought I'd ask a few questions Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:12 pm

Evening everyone. Eilzel, in today's (Wednesday) Daily Express there is a big article all about psychic and spiritual experiences. An expert on the subject has, over a long period, investigated these events and has reached the conclusion that it is indeed a part of our brain that conjures up ghosts, apparitions, and all those spiritual experiences that many people believe are from Spirits and ghosts etc.

I would agree with you that if such occurences give a person comfort and hope, then we have no right to deny them that. It's nice of Sassy and American Gal to share their experiences with us. During my years of investigation and research into God and mythology I attended a Spiritualist church for about 10 years, it nearly got me hooked for life, but gradually I began to realise that a lot of the Medium's messages were no more than familiarity with generational habits, either consciously or unconsciously doing so. It doesn't take much imagination for a Medium to tell someone that Aunty Mabel, or Uncle Joseph is coming through. These are generational names, such as an old man dressed in a waistcoat, which one seldom sees these days.

But, I keep an open mind on the subject due to my own experiences I can't explain. I've told this event before on ADS, but I'll do it again: Some years ago I was hitch-hiking around Europe with a friend, Arthur. Due to a family problem I left him in Italy and came back home. A fortnight later his mother phoned to say he'd followed me back but tragically got run over in London and died. I felt guilty about this, for if I hadn't come back then nor would he have done. Some years later, in said Spiritualist church, a visiting Medium whom I didn't know told me that Arthur said not to feel guilty, it wasn't my fault!

So, despite my views and beliefs I still don't know what to make of it.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum