Heaven....

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Heaven....

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:42 pm

There are so many ideas people and religions have about what comes after death. Some believe we are reincarnated as another creature; others that we a simply expired, destined to be worm food and nothing more. But the one that is without doubt the most commonly accepted, by those of organized religion or liberal faith- is Heaven.

But there are so many questions surrounding this to cause reasonable doubt in my opinion. Alot of this by the way comes from a thread things discussed over on ADS by Iamking, phildidge and Sexymama; that is the basis for this thread.

First. There are many people with a rather wishy-washy idea that we all go to Heaven in the end. But if this is the case, then what is the point in Earth and humanitys existence here to begin with? If we all end up in the same place, this seems a rather unneccessary toil, especially when makind itself is relatively new (in Universal terms) and will one day most likley cease to exist.

Second. People of strong faith in an organized religion believe that Hell is an alternative to Heaven which actually exists. Now (and this is where what I read on ADS comes in) if our fates are already predetermined by God and thus those doomed for Hell have no way of avoiding that; then surely this is rather cruel. It is typical that bad people have miserable lives. So God set them on Earth, the be unfortunate, do bad things, then suffer eternal damnation? Does this not seem a bit pointless?

Finally. There are those who believe in an afterlife without even a God to begin with. Now the idea of the origins of the Universe (the big bang etc) without a God are not uncommon. But the idea that the Universe grew to incorporate some plane of existence for the soul after death is hard to explain surely? Why would something seemingly explainable in all its physical aspects have an alternative dimension where all our souls end up?

There are all of course whys? But whys create doubt and to an extent explain away ideas formed themselves by human thinking.

Does anyone here believe in life after death, and do you have any answers to the questions raised above?


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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Just glad that I know that I'm going to hell, at least I know that it'll be warm in the Winter! lol!

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Re: Heaven....

Post by victorismyhero on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:11 am

MrDoodles wrote:Just glad that I know that I'm going to hell, at least I know that it'll be warm in the Winter! lol!
and you will have some interesting company...stalin, hitler, pol pot etc...i bet a far more "lively" crowd than whats destined for heaven.....+
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Re: Heaven....

Post by SEXY MAMA on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:51 pm

Well Mr Doodles you certainly will have very intresting company like Dibs and her husband! Very Happy
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Re: Heaven....

Post by SEXY MAMA on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:53 pm

Les i belive on life after death!

Well actually as muslims we believe THIS life is nothing! Because our REAL life begins after death!
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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:54 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Well Mr Doodles you certainly will have very intresting company like Dibs and her husband! Very Happy

But aren't they under the impression that they're going to heaven? Question lol!

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:54 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Les i belive on life after death!

Well actually as muslims we believe THIS life is nothing! Because our REAL life begins after death!

So what IS the point of this life then? If it is nothing.

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Re: Heaven....

Post by SEXY MAMA on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:02 pm

eilzel wrote:

So what IS the point of this life then? If it is nothing.

It is too make sure we get the highest place in heaven!

Good deeds will get you the highest status! Everything we do is for afterlife!
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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:12 pm

eilzel wrote:

So what IS the point of this life then? If it is nothing.


Live for the moment Eilzel, who knows what will happen tomorrow, in 10 years time, after death. I believe in making the most of now, you have very little control over tomorrow I love you xxx

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:21 pm

Sexy, if you believe this life is nothing, and I assume so to does Allah, then isn't it a bit barbaric to have some people born into this world, do bad things or live miserable lives, then go to hell?

And likewise, if Allah knows someone is good, why put them through the toils of life on earth if they will go to heaven in the end anyway?

^^^ FtL, you echo my thoughts well. As someone who dosen't believe in either God or an afterlife I believe it is a fundamental value to live for the moment, cherish every thing, see and learn as much as possible, appreciate the time we have- because in the end, it is all we have Very Happy

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:37 pm

eilzel wrote:Sexy, if you believe this life is nothing, and I assume so to does Allah, then isn't it a bit barbaric to have some people born into this world, do bad things or live miserable lives, then go to hell?

And likewise, if Allah knows someone is good, why put them through the toils of life on earth if they will go to heaven in the end anyway?

^^^ FtL, you echo my thoughts well. As someone who dosen't believe in either God or an afterlife I believe it is a fundamental value to live for the moment, cherish every thing, see and learn as much as possible, appreciate the time we have- because in the end, it is all we have Very Happy

I love you We are on the same wavelength Eilzel. Cherish life's experiences, cherish those you love, cherish today xxxxxxx

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:45 pm

Feelthelove wrote:

I love you We are on the same wavelength Eilzel. Cherish life's experiences, cherish those you love, cherish today xxxxxxx

Hi FTL,

Well I don't believe in a God, but I don't believe we disappear. I think the essential 'us' continues, even if only as an energy. The thing that happened recently totally confirmed to me what I thought. My daughter, though ill, had such a spark and I could see it was totally gone and I just knew the essence that was her could not have just 'gone' from one minute to the next. There was an experiment in a hospital in America years ago. Sounds very macabre, but they had the legs of beds of those that they knew would die on special scales. As they died, the scales all registered a slight loss in weight, even though nothing had changed. Wish I could find the link. I just think that the individual energy that makes us 'us' is inextinguishable, energy changes, it never goes.

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:01 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

Hi FTL,

Well I don't believe in a God, but I don't believe we disappear. I think the essential 'us' continues, even if only as an energy. The thing that happened recently totally confirmed to me what I thought. My daughter, though ill, had such a spark and I could see it was totally gone and I just knew the essence that was her could not have just 'gone' from one minute to the next. There was an experiment in a hospital in America years ago. Sounds very macabre, but they had the legs of beds of those that they knew would die on special scales. As they died, the scales all registered a slight loss in weight, even though nothing had changed. Wish I could find the link. I just think that the individual energy that makes us 'us' is inextinguishable, energy changes, it never goes.

I'm inclined to agree Sassy, though I think not nearly as literally, and I'm skeptical of the experiement you talk of I'll judge it if ever I see it. I believe that the essence of what we are (call it the energy, spirit, soul, life forece, whatever), upon our death, may well leave us, but that it simply returns to the the huge life force that is our entire planet. I don't believe it has individuality or personality at all.

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:44 pm

Well after losing my mum in 2008 to Cancer and having two Cancer scares myself in the last two years as well, my outlook on life has definitly changed! Twisted Evil

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:46 pm

MrDoodles wrote:Well after losing my mum in 2008 to Cancer and having two Cancer scares myself in the last two years as well, my outlook on life has definitly changed! Twisted Evil

That's so sad MrD.

But you are a non-believer right? Is it those things that turned you away from faith?

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:51 pm

eilzel wrote:

That's so sad MrD.

But you are a non-believer right? Is it those things that turned you away from faith?

Well I did have quite a Religious up-bringing and was taught right from wrong, but after losing my dad in 1995, I started questioning my Faith and then realised that I didn't believe at all, just went along with things as that's what mum and dad believed!

Most things in the Bible can be explained by science now anyway! Very Happy

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:55 pm

MrDoodles wrote:

Well I did have quite a Religious up-bringing and was taught right from wrong, but after losing my dad in 1995, I started questioning my Faith and then realised that I didn't believe at all, just went along with things as that's what mum and dad believed!

Most things in the Bible can be explained by science now anyway! Very Happy

Exactly MrD! I don't see why everyone can't see that, it really is staggering at times Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Heaven....

Post by victorismyhero on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:00 pm

live for today, for tomorrow may not be
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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:02 pm

victorismyhero wrote:live for today, for tomorrow may not be

I'll second, third, fourth and fifth that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Heaven....

Post by victorismyhero on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:15 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

I'll second, third, fourth and fifth that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


((((((HUGS)))))) for you Sass
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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:31 am

eilzel wrote:

Second. People of strong faith in an organized religion believe that Hell is an alternative to Heaven which actually exists. Now (and this is where what I read on ADS comes in) if our fates are already predetermined by God and thus those doomed for Hell have no way of avoiding that; then surely this is rather cruel. It is typical that bad people have miserable lives. So God set them on Earth, the be unfortunate, do bad things, then suffer eternal damnation? Does this not seem a bit pointless?



Hi eilzel, I dont believe anyone is sent to earth to do bad things as we are all born with free will and we have the ability to choose where our lives take us.

Some people live good lives despite having a bad start whereas others will wallow in it and find it easier to blame everyone else and actually enjoy being miserable.

I believe this life is an opportunity to be the best person you can be and we have to go through it time and time again till we have learned the lessons we need to learn.

As for having a cruel God, I think most misery in this world is caused by man.

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:48 am

molly wrote:


Hi eilzel, I dont believe anyone is sent to earth to do bad things as we are all born with free will and we have the ability to choose where our lives take us.

Some people live good lives despite having a bad start whereas others will wallow in it and find it easier to blame everyone else and actually enjoy being miserable.

I believe this life is an opportunity to be the best person you can be and we have to go through it time and time again till we have learned the lessons we need to learn.

As for having a cruel God, I think most misery in this world is caused by man.

Hi Molly,

So, what are you religious beliefs then, if any? Do you believe in Heaven or an afterlife? I agree completely with us all having freewill, which generally flies in the face of an omnipotent God who has set our paths out for us. Most misery is caused by man? You are right again, this is sadly a result of our freewill and often a direct result of good intentions(see Mother Teresa). But if you believe in God then I'm afraid the buck stops with him, for he would be responsible for all the bad as well as good.

My attack on the Biblical God by the way come from the (ridiculous) stories of the Bible. Flooding the whole earth killing all life on it for the sake of a few bad men! Wiping out all the first born boys in Egypt cause Pharaoh (whose mind was controlled by God) refused to release the Jew! A VERY cruel God indeed affraid

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Re: Heaven....

Post by SEXY MAMA on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:42 am

No Les life is VERY sacred in Islam! It is a gift from God!
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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:31 am

SEXY MAMA wrote:No Les life is VERY sacred in Islam! It is a gift from God!

But yesterday you said this life is nothing? Nothing and a gift are two very different things in most peoples eyes Sexy.

Also, let's look at most Islamic countries. Pakistan, Iran, Saudi, Syria, Libya etc. All suffer mass poverty, are ruled by oppressive regimes, are deprived in many cases of freedom of choice and speech. So in Islam life is sacred and a gift from God. Then why does Allah see those most faithful suffer so bady whilst non-believers living in sin in the western world and elsewhere have good health, hardly any poverty at all and freedom to say and do as they will?

Why have this world at all if we are bound for heaven in the end?

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Re: Heaven....

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:35 pm

If you believe in heaven then you have to believe in purgatory of course.

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