Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:11 am

I'm the king wrote:

As I said I don't know the area, so cannot be sure. though I did just check the crime in the area and it is a third of the crime in my area which is supposedly a 'safe' area, so not sure what that says about where I live.

Even at 32,000 that is still below the mean (average) salary in the UK.

Round here (South Lincolnshire) there are VERY few jobs above minimum wage (currently just over £12,000 a year, for a 40 hour week) thanks to the enormous influx of East Europeans we have had in the area. Sad

They will live 3 couples to a house, work for £4 an hour cash in hand, whilst claiming benefits as well and sending any spare money back home to relatives! Mad

So how does the young lad working at Maccys, get married, have somewhere to live and start a family exactly? Question

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:21 am

MrDoodles wrote:

Round here (South Lincolnshire) there are VERY few jobs above minimum wage (currently just over £12,000 a year, for a 40 hour week) thanks to the enormous influx of East Europeans we have had in the area. Sad

They will live 3 couples to a house, work for £4 an hour cash in hand, whilst claiming benefits as well and sending any spare money back home to relatives! Mad

So how does the young lad working at Maccys, get married, have somewhere to live and start a family exactly? Question

I love the stereotype you have of eastern Europeans. they all do this right? Near where I live, there is a small town which is a little rough, (there is an estate known as beiruit). as it is cheap a lot of Eastern European Families have moved in and now the area is getting better, the schools are getting better grades. I'm not saying they are all like that, as I know some are as you say, so are some 'indigenous' white people, but why let the truth get in the way eh?

I know a young lad who works in Maccy D's and has a kid, got married and is fairly close to getting a deposit together; maybe maccy D's is a bad example though, as if you work hard you can earn a decent wage starting from the bottom.

Should the minimum wage offer a minimum level of living or should it offer more, I though that was the whole point of a minimum. But then I thought an average was the sum of figures divided by number of figures, so what do I know lol!

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:33 pm

I'm the king wrote:

As I said I don't know the area, so cannot be sure. though I did just check the crime in the area and it is a third of the crime in my area which is supposedly a 'safe' area, so not sure what that says about where I live.

Even at 32,000 that is still below the mean (average) salary in the UK.

The crime for Taunton is very low, it is a lovely area, but I can assure you that we actually looked at a house just about next door to that one, Lyngfield Square, and said no way, not here! The crime rate might not be too bad, but it is high for Taunton.

http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-average-salary-graphs/article.aspx

According to the above, the average pay is £30,550 for men and £23,857 for women, add the two together and you get an average wage of £27,203.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:45 pm

Had a look on the site you posted IAK for 1 bedroom properties in Taunton. There were two studio apartment for around £70,000, then it jumped to £80 -90,000 for actual flats, then one bedroomed houses about £100,000.

If you are in your twenties, you will not realise the way the wage/mortgage ratio has changed so rapidly over the last 20 years. It was normal for the mortgage to be on one persons wage, now it nearly always has to be on two and even then it is difficult. You might not believe this, but I am not that old and ancient and the first house I had cost £5,500. My husband then was earning £3,500 a year! Thats why us old fogies think that the housing market now it totally bonkers.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:58 pm

sassy1261 wrote:Had a look on the site you posted IAK for 1 bedroom properties in Taunton. There were two studio apartment for around £70,000, then it jumped to £80 -90,000 for actual flats, then one bedroomed houses about £100,000.

If you are in your twenties, you will not realise the way the wage/mortgage ratio has changed so rapidly over the last 20 years. It was normal for the mortgage to be on one persons wage, now it nearly always has to be on two and even then it is difficult. You might not believe this, but I am not that old and ancient and the first house I had cost £5,500. My husband then was earning £3,500 a year! Thats why us old fogies think that the housing market now it totally bonkers.

I know it has changed and I'm not saying it isn't bonkers, only it's not as bonkers as some papers and parties are trying to make out and it doesn't help if people are using incompatible stats to compare.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:10 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

The crime for Taunton is very low, it is a lovely area, but I can assure you that we actually looked at a house just about next door to that one, Lyngfield Square, and said no way, not here! The crime rate might not be too bad, but it is high for Taunton.

http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-average-salary-graphs/article.aspx

According to the above, the average pay is £30,550 for men and £23,857 for women, add the two together and you get an average wage of £27,203.

I looked at that before, again for some reason, they too are using a median result, and not the mean. As I have said before, this is not an average, but a 'typical' salary.

Which is fine to use, but only if you then compare a 'typical' house price, which is not what is being published/compared.

from what I have read the ratio of mean salary/mean house price and median salary/median house price are very similar, which is to be expected, but comparing median salary/ mean house price, (or vice versa) gives a false impresion.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:20 am

eilzel wrote:I'm totally with MrD on this one.

£37,000 Shocked Many teachers don't even earn that!

The average wage is driven up by mega earners. I don't know many people who earn over £20,000 a year tbh.

I also agree with MrD on immigration being a main cause of lower wages. Skemster raised an interesting argument on this being where mass immigration from this angle is very much a RW problem helped no end by the pro-big business New Labour under Tony Blair.

But that's another story. They want houses to sell they need to make work pay better- though I do agree with the argument house ownership should not be seen as a right.



The oft quoted average is around £25,000 I'm not sure whether that is an arithmetic mean or median wage. Most of my friends earn wages around this figure ora few grand more.



Property prices are too high and vendors have relied too much on growth to borrow more to fund more borrowing. That is now at an end. Because there is more demand due to uncontrolled population growth prices will remain fairly firm or groww particualarly in London.



Why do we like to own our own properties Seren? when other europeans rent. My answer is we don't want to waste money on rent. I paid of my first property at 40 and have bought additional ones since. One is a buy to let the other a second home.



Yes we may lose some money on paper in the short term but in the long term property is still a good savings vehicle. Rents incidentally have really firmed up because of high demand. That in turn will narrow the entry price to purchase again strating of a new boom.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:06 am

H20 wrote:



The oft quoted average is around £25,000 I'm not sure whether that is an arithmetic mean or median wage. Most of my friends earn wages around this figure ora few grand more.



Property prices are too high and vendors have relied too much on growth to borrow more to fund more borrowing. That is now at an end. Because there is more demand due to uncontrolled population growth prices will remain fairly firm or groww particualarly in London.



Why do we like to own our own properties Seren? when other europeans rent. My answer is we don't want to waste money on rent. I paid of my first property at 40 and have bought additional ones since. One is a buy to let the other a second home.



Yes we may lose some money on paper in the short term but in the long term property is still a good savings vehicle. Rents incidentally have really firmed up because of high demand. That in turn will narrow the entry price to purchase again strating of a new boom.

I don't know if the coalition really intend to change this but under Labour it seemed rather pointless to work hard and pay a mortgage as once you were old Labour were quick to take it off you to "pay" again for your NHS care.

Despite someone who had never paid in receiving the same care for free.

Also rather than leaving it to your children which is a long human tradition Labour seemed keen to relive your children of it too through death taxes.


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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:55 am

Seren wrote:

I don't know if the coalition really intend to change this but under Labour it seemed rather pointless to work hard and pay a mortgage as once you were old Labour were quick to take it off you to "pay" again for your NHS care.

Despite someone who had never paid in receiving the same care for free.

Also rather than leaving it to your children which is a long human tradition Labour seemed keen to relive your children of it too through death taxes.





A very good point indeed and one which I keep forgetting. I have to say as a parent today to tell your children work hard, save hard pay your way is not a good strategy if we are under the yolk of a Labour govt. As you suggest they reward those who squander all, and those who want to live off others.



I shall gradually move my properties into the names of my sons to avoid this problem but you do have to wonder at the mentatlity of a party that seeks to hurt those who are decent hard working citizens with ambition. Indeed we are either classed as greedy Tories if we enjoy a modicum of success or simply mugs for paying the taxes which others live off.



Perhaps we are just MUGS.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:03 pm

H20 wrote:

A very good point indeed and one which I keep forgetting. I have to say as a parent today to tell your children work hard, save hard pay your way is not a good strategy if we are under the yolk of a Labour govt. As you suggest they reward those who squander all, and those who want to live off others.



I shall gradually move my properties into the names of my sons to avoid this problem but you do have to wonder at the mentatlity of a party that seeks to hurt those who are decent hard working citizens with ambition. Indeed we are either classed as greedy Tories if we enjoy a modicum of success or simply mugs for paying the taxes which others live off.



Perhaps we are just MUGS.

I think for Labour capitalism is a dream come true. They can use MUGS like us to work like donkeys to fund their socialist dreams, but only those who won't/can't work get to benefit from those dreams.

Seriously the older I get and the more governments I've endured it seems to be EXACTLY what happens.

Good points about moving the property deeds. My eldery grandmother was in the same situation where my father ensured that her property was absolutely totally in his name for when they came knocking for her money when she needed a home. Most put out they were to be told "on your bike its not her house".

That's why he has such a big estate now. He was damned if they were getting it. Considering she and my grandfather worked hard all their lives quite right too.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:17 pm

I am faced with trying to do this for my Mum now. Unfortunately she has left it rather late as she is well into her 70s and the state can look back many years. Her estate isn't an issue for capital gains tax but she would lose everything if she had to go into a home.

My Mum and Dad were thrift personified and they spent nothing they hadn't already saved for except for the mortgage. It will be all the more galling therefore if she has to hand it all over.

There is a point of view that has taken root in the Guardianistas that nothing should be handed down to the next generation. It has a great following amongst that group I'd be happy to debate that sometime.

The fallout from the banks has really excited the LW in society to the extent that capaitalism is being challenged and Socialism or worse is being heralded as a real option. Of course some of us with a bit of age like myself know that Socialism/Communism are very much worse than our imperfect capitalism.

With capitalism comes the concept of owvership that the left seem to despise for some reason. Is this as I love to simplify it as the fruits of envy or something much more complicated.

There are some who are wealthy that have Socialist leanings like Tony Benn but I note even though he relinquished his title he didn't give up the home or the money. Most Socialist I suggest have sweet FA to conserve and therefore have no truck with conservatism. The message from Labour that we will take it off those who have really resonates with them

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by victorismyhero on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:38 pm

I've said it befor

LW = politics of envy

RW = politics of greed
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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:00 pm

victorismyhero wrote:I've said it befor

LW = politics of envy

RW = politics of greed

Agreed and never a middle ground

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:32 am

Houses are not selling, because the vendors are still expecting to make a profit on the sale. Until they realise that houses are a commodity like everything else and WILL sell at a market driven price, their houses will remain unsold. No wonder our young people cannot get their feet on the property ladder. Time for vendors to sell at the best price they can get. This will get the property business moving again.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:46 am

fred bloggs wrote:Houses are not selling, because the vendors are still expecting to make a profit on the sale. Until they realise that houses are a commodity like everything else and WILL sell at a market driven price, their houses will remain unsold. No wonder our young people cannot get their feet on the property ladder. Time for vendors to sell at the best price they can get. This will get the property business moving again.

In principle I would agree Fred, trouble is, the vendors have mortages they have to pay off, so can't go lower. Its a viscious circle.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:40 pm

sassy1261 wrote:

In principle I would agree Fred, trouble is, the vendors have mortages they have to pay off, so can't go lower. Its a viscious circle.




Horses for courses - They either want to sell their homes or not. In life sometimes you often have to take the hit to allow yourself to move on.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:41 pm

fred bloggs wrote:




Horses for courses - They either want to sell their homes or not. In life sometimes you often have to take the hit to allow yourself to move on.

All well and good for those in a financial position so to do.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:47 pm

fred bloggs wrote:




Horses for courses - They either want to sell their homes or not. In life sometimes you often have to take the hit to allow yourself to move on.

Are you talking about people that are selling to make a financial gain...?

If not....

They may not be able to afford their mortgage, but surely it's got to be easier to find the additional sum on a monthly basis rather than find £ thousands immediately. ?

I doubt 'moving on' would be beneficial in those circumstances.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:31 pm

I'll take issue with you Victor. There are many philanthropist even going back 300 years.
Not all capitalist are greedy for money just as not all humans are greedy with food. I am a capitalist and am by most standards quite comfortable. I retired early because I could afford to when I could have amassed far more. Why didn't I because I am not greedy and I value my life more than money.

The left like to portray all capailist or indeed Tories as Gordon Geckos you simply add to that stereotyping. You yourself admit to being RW but I assume you aren't a greedy git either though Sassy did say you were a git. (only joking)

I like to put it this way benevolent capaitalism and free markets beat well intentioned but ultimately hopelessly inadequate Socialism anyday.

Throught the latter half of the last century the free west put food on the table of it's peoples. The Soviet Union meanwhile starved many of its citizens to death and had to import wheat from the good old USA to feed those it didn't.

QED capatalism is pragmatic and generally better for us.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:33 pm

H20 wrote:I'll take issue with you Victor. There are many philanthropist even going back 300 years.
Not all capitalist are greedy for money just as not all humans are greedy with food. I am a capitalist and am by most standards quite comfortable. I retired early because I could afford to when I could have amassed far more. Why didn't I because I am not greedy and I value my life more than money.

The left like to portray all capailist or indeed Tories as Gordon Geckos you simply add to that stereotyping. You yourself admit to being RW but I assume you aren't a greedy git either though Sassy did say you were a git. (only joking)

I like to put it this way benevolent capaitalism and free markets beat well intentioned but ultimately hopelessly inadequate Socialism anyday.

Throught the latter half of the last century the free west put food on the table of it's peoples. The Soviet Union meanwhile starved many of its citizens to death and had to import wheat from the good old USA to feed those it didn't.

QED capatalism is pragmatic and generally better for us.

absolutely, philanthropists like Rowntree and many many others bulit house and schools for the poor. They could only do this by being good capitalists.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Seren wrote:

absolutely, philanthropists like Rowntree and many many others bulit house and schools for the poor. They could only do this by being good capitalists.

Who is like Rowntree or Lever today though?

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:59 pm

Nems Again wrote:

Who is like Rowntree or Lever today though?

Bill Gates Very Happy

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by victorismyhero on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:44 pm

I might well be right wing, but that doesnt mean I support unbridled capitalism. Nor I would agree is there any future in unbridled well meaning but ultimately futile socialism...However the world has turned since the days of Rowntree, lever and cadubury.....these philanthropists did NOT do these things out of "care for the poor" or at least not entirely, First and foremost, they were deeply religious, and did it "for the good of their souls", all very commendable and that...BUT in todays two faced religious atmosphere, i would suspect such people ...with money and considering they have a soul needing saving, would be few and far between.

also their impact on the poor of the time , whilst large in the area they had their influence was minimal in terms of the whole country. in order to prevent descent into victorian poor type conditions we would need 1000's of such benevolent patrons....and it aint going to happen...

a middle way is needed, as I have said before....A mixed economy, with some (in the main utilities/services) being nationally owned (and properly run ...Yes h2o...it IS possible) whilst the rest of business and enterprise is left to get on with things.

a social support IS needed..badly needed, but the present system is neither suitable nor sustainable I would agree, but the "solution" of leaving families to starve aint an answer either...even if the far right love the idea, and simply cannot see that overall, ther ARE far more applicants than jobs AND that the "import of labour" IS the main factor in this, depressing wages, and defeating the cahnces of our youngsters to get a job.

Moreover, however you dress it up, the minimum wage is a joke and little more than a political tool, I have seen technical roles advertised at minimum wage...now I tell you ...I wouldnt get out of bed for that wage..(then again I'm 57 so....) but minimum wage and imported labour has robbed the skilled especially of the ability to say to an employer..if you want ME ...then you pay me what I'm worth
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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:57 pm

victorismyhero wrote:I might well be right wing, but that doesnt mean I support unbridled capitalism. Nor I would agree is there any future in unbridled well meaning but ultimately futile socialism...However the world has turned since the days of Rowntree, lever and cadubury.....these philanthropists did NOT do these things out of "care for the poor" or at least not entirely, First and foremost, they were deeply religious, and did it "for the good of their souls", all very commendable and that...BUT in todays two faced religious atmosphere, i would suspect such people ...with money and considering they have a soul needing saving, would be few and far between.

also their impact on the poor of the time , whilst large in the area they had their influence was minimal in terms of the whole country. in order to prevent descent into victorian poor type conditions we would need 1000's of such benevolent patrons....and it aint going to happen...

a middle way is needed, as I have said before....A mixed economy, with some (in the main utilities/services) being nationally owned (and properly run ...Yes h2o...it IS possible) whilst the rest of business and enterprise is left to get on with things.

a social support IS needed..badly needed, but the present system is neither suitable nor sustainable I would agree, but the "solution" of leaving families to starve aint an answer either...even if the far right love the idea, and simply cannot see that overall, ther ARE far more applicants than jobs AND that the "import of labour" IS the main factor in this, depressing wages, and defeating the cahnces of our youngsters to get a job.

Moreover, however you dress it up, the minimum wage is a joke and little more than a political tool, I have seen technical roles advertised at minimum wage...now I tell you ...I wouldnt get out of bed for that wage..(then again I'm 57 so....) but minimum wage and imported labour has robbed the skilled especially of the ability to say to an employer..if you want ME ...then you pay me what I'm worth

Keep right on talking Victor, the only thing I disagree on is the minimum wage, without it they would still want to pay people 3p and hour.

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Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Seren wrote:

Bill Gates Very Happy
In uk?

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