Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:47 am


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:14 am

I agree that the property in theis country is overpriced. If property was to reflect it's true market value it would sell, no problem. It's just that the vendors are being greedy and expect to make a profit on their property, when in fact the opposite is more relevant. If the prices were more accurate, there would be more homes available for 1st time buyers as others would be moving up the property ladder. So come on vendors, accept a realistic price for your property and get the ball rolling again.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:49 am

MrDoodles wrote:As I have posted many a time previously, until someone on an "average" wage, can afford to buy an "average" house, the housing stock in this Country, remains over-priced! Twisted Evil

Long may it continue to fall! Twisted Evil

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/7-Out-Of-10-Houses-Marketed-So-Far-This-Year-Remain-Unsold-According-To-Rightmove/Article/201107316032295?lpos=Business_First_Buisness_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16032295_7_Out_Of_10_Houses_Marketed_So_Far_This_Year_Remain_Unsold%2C_According_To_Rightmove

Why is there such an obsession with buying a house anyway. Many European countries have people living in rented accommodation all their lives.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:11 am

I agree that houses are far too expensive and this needs to be sorted. But to say that a person on the UK average salary should be able to purchase an average priced house is fudging the stats a little:

The vast majority of houses are bought by couples, meaning 2 things, the vast majority of houses bought will be for 2 or more people (ie bigger) and that it involves 2 incomes.

therefore a fairer comparison is when a couple on the average salary can afford the average house, it is about right, though I feel it should even be lower than this

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:25 am

I'm the king wrote:I agree that houses are far too expensive and this needs to be sorted. But to say that a person on the UK average salary should be able to purchase an average priced house is fudging the stats a little:

The vast majority of houses are bought by couples, meaning 2 things, the vast majority of houses bought will be for 2 or more people (ie bigger) and that it involves 2 incomes.

therefore a fairer comparison is when a couple on the average salary can afford the average house, it is about right, though I feel it should even be lower than this

Here in North Wales I bought a house on just my salary. I feel that many places in the UK are vastly over populated which is the main reason that housing costs will always remain high.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:24 pm

I'm the king wrote:I agree that houses are far too expensive and this needs to be sorted. But to say that a person on the UK average salary should be able to purchase an average priced house is fudging the stats a little:

The vast majority of houses are bought by couples, meaning 2 things, the vast majority of houses bought will be for 2 or more people (ie bigger) and that it involves 2 incomes.

therefore a fairer comparison is when a couple on the average salary can afford the average house, it is about right, though I feel it should even be lower than this

That's fine, but what if you want to have children? Question

Why should both parents have to work every hour god sends, simply to keep a roof over their heads? Question

I remember a time when the main wage earner (be them male or female) COULD earn enough to buy and run a house and still be able to afford to keep one parent at home, to raise their children properly! Twisted Evil

But of course mass immigration has long put paid to that, by suppressing wage levels, whilst at the same time, putting housing costs beyond most normal working families! Sad

I bought my 1st house at the age of 19, what chance does an average 19 year old have of doing that now? Question Sad

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:41 pm

I take on your point Mr D, but it was different worlds back then.

What some could argue (and Seren is arguing) that buying a house isn't a right, and it's not as if they are homeless if they cannot buy.

How have wages been suppressed? this is the UK average wage over the years:

1980 7,585.53
1981 8,566.07
1982 9,369.56
1983 10,159.44
1984 10,779.08
1985 11,691.52
1986 12,615.15
1987 13,597.24
1988 14,778.08
1989 16,122.89
1990 17,689.37
1991 19,045.83
1992 20,208.51
1993 20,817.53
1994 21,592.65
1995 22,257.04
1996 23,059.85
1997 24,028.75
1998 25,274.48
1999 26,492.52
2000 27,682.89
2001 28,900.94
2002 29,952.88
2003 30,977.15
2004 32,333.61
2005 33,634.71
2006 35,018.85
2007 36,347.63
2008 37,704.10
2009 37,580.11
(from the FT)
Not much in the way of suppression there that I see.

Using those figure, a married couple, one working full time one part time can afford an average house. But lets be honest, affordability isn't the real issue, it's getting the mortgage that is the hard thing.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:23 pm

I'm the king wrote:I take on your point Mr D, but it was different worlds back then.

What some could argue (and Seren is arguing) that buying a house isn't a right, and it's not as if they are homeless if they cannot buy.

How have wages been suppressed? this is the UK average wage over the years:

1980 7,585.53
1981 8,566.07
1982 9,369.56
1983 10,159.44
1984 10,779.08
1985 11,691.52
1986 12,615.15
1987 13,597.24
1988 14,778.08
1989 16,122.89
1990 17,689.37
1991 19,045.83
1992 20,208.51
1993 20,817.53
1994 21,592.65
1995 22,257.04
1996 23,059.85
1997 24,028.75
1998 25,274.48
1999 26,492.52
2000 27,682.89
2001 28,900.94
2002 29,952.88
2003 30,977.15
2004 32,333.61
2005 33,634.71
2006 35,018.85
2007 36,347.63
2008 37,704.10
2009 37,580.11
(from the FT)
Not much in the way of suppression there that I see.

Using those figure, a married couple, one working full time one part time can afford an average house. But lets be honest, affordability isn't the real issue, it's getting the mortgage that is the hard thing.

£37,580, an "average wage"!!! lol!

It might be for FT readers, I think you'll find that the one in the following article is much closer! Twisted Evil

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293121/Average-annual-salary-drops-2-600-just-months.html

And on that amount, it's impossible, to own a house, run a car and start a family! Twisted Evil Sad

The problem with mass immigration, is apart from you multiply the competition for "minimum wage" jobs, it has also pushed down the wages of jobs that were traditionally above minimum wage! Sad

Take my old profession, basic wages used to be at £15,000 a year plus commission, now the basics are around £10,000 plus commission, a reduction of a third! Sad Sad

"Perks" like free fuel have also gone, so most are earning less than they were 6 years ago in that Industry! Sad Sad

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:50 pm

I'm totally with MrD on this one.

£37,000 Shocked Many teachers don't even earn that!

The average wage is driven up by mega earners. I don't know many people who earn over £20,000 a year tbh.

I also agree with MrD on immigration being a main cause of lower wages. Skemster raised an interesting argument on this being where mass immigration from this angle is very much a RW problem helped no end by the pro-big business New Labour under Tony Blair.

But that's another story. They want houses to sell they need to make work pay better- though I do agree with the argument house ownership should not be seen as a right.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:00 pm

I would agree on the housing. Way back, maybe 16 years ago, I was only earning £12,000 a year, but managed to buy a dear little house for £34,000 on the edge of Taunton. It was very tiny, no more than a flat on two floors, with a patio garden. My ex husband could not be included in the mortgage as he had only been self employed a year and they wanted 3 years books to even think about it. We put french doors from the tiny lounge to the garden and one of those electric awnings above the doors, the garden was so tiny the awning nearly covered it. It turned the garden into a room. I think we were happier there than anywhere. To get back to the point, it was just my wages that covered that mortgage, and provided people don't want palaces, that is the way it should be.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:29 pm

sassy1261 wrote:I would agree on the housing. Way back, maybe 16 years ago, I was only earning £12,000 a year, but managed to buy a dear little house for £34,000 on the edge of Taunton. It was very tiny, no more than a flat on two floors, with a patio garden. My ex husband could not be included in the mortgage as he had only been self employed a year and they wanted 3 years books to even think about it. We put french doors from the tiny lounge to the garden and one of those electric awnings above the doors, the garden was so tiny the awning nearly covered it. It turned the garden into a room. I think we were happier there than anywhere. To get back to the point, it was just my wages that covered that mortgage, and provided people don't want palaces, that is the way it should be.

Oh dear, I'm agreeing with sassy again! affraid

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:47 am

MrDoodles wrote:

£37,580, an "average wage"!!! lol!

It might be for FT readers, I think you'll find that the one in the following article is much closer! Twisted Evil

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293121/Average-annual-salary-drops-2-600-just-months.html

And on that amount, it's impossible, to own a house, run a car and start a family! Twisted Evil Sad

The problem with mass immigration, is apart from you multiply the competition for "minimum wage" jobs, it has also pushed down the wages of jobs that were traditionally above minimum wage! Sad

Take my old profession, basic wages used to be at £15,000 a year plus commission, now the basics are around £10,000 plus commission, a reduction of a third! Sad Sad

"Perks" like free fuel have also gone, so most are earning less than they were 6 years ago in that Industry! Sad Sad

I think the Daily Mail needs to learn the difference between Median (middle number) and Mean (average). The numbers there tie in with the Median figure given by the ONS:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 am

I'm the king wrote:

I think the Daily Mail needs to learn the difference between Median (middle number) and Mean (average). The numbers there tie in with the Median figure given by the ONS:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

That's OK then ITK, you go by whatever figures YOU want to use and I'll use the one's that people are ACTUALLY earning! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:14 am

If you want to compare different types of statistics to get the answer you want then go for it. I'll stick to comparing like for like...

You can not learn anything by comparing the mean of one statistic with the median of another.

As Eilzel stated, the average wage is affected by huge wages, but you can say the same for the average house price being affected by massive houses, being bought by those on huge wages, so it balances out.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:05 pm

I'm the king wrote:If you want to compare different types of statistics to get the answer you want then go for it. I'll stick to comparing like for like...

You can not learn anything by comparing the mean of one statistic with the median of another.

As Eilzel stated, the average wage is affected by huge wages, but you can say the same for the average house price being affected by massive houses, being bought by those on huge wages, so it balances out.


If you REALLY think that the average person is on £37,500 a year, then sorry, but you are living in cloud cuckoo land and I'll have a problem taking your posts seriously on here from now on! Twisted Evil

I really thought that you were one of the more intelligent posters that you could actually debate a difference of opinion with! Twisted Evil

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:33 pm

I can't believe someone who is trying to compare different forms of statistics is questioning anyone's intelligence.

If you want to keep on lying to yourself by using incompatible stats then go for it, but stop acting like a campaigner for truth when it is obviously the last thing you want

There is a phrase from were I grew up that you have reminded me of

You don't know if you need a s**t or a hair cut.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:03 pm

King in fairness, the balance between people on huge wages and number of affordable housing is completely off key.

Where I live, it is a very working class area. Yet the new housing they continue to throw up is way out of most peoples price range- most being on often quite a bit below average wage.

I'm going to further MrDs argument here- I think housing should be more affordable to those even on the minimum wage- otherwise what is the point in a minimum to begin with if it dosen't even allow for the lowest standard of living?

The average is catagorically NOT £37,500 by any rational means. Even people in good professions do not always earn that. A HUGE number of jobs today, from call centres to shelf stackers; carers to shop assistants; earn pittance. These are jobs which we NEED to keep the economy running- they may be easy skilless jobs but better than no work at all.

To earn over the 37K mark one must have a damn fine job that are for ahead of what the majority can do (or in alot of cases be very lucky). This, along with building on a mass scale of OVERPRICED housing; is what keeps the balance unfair and ensures thousands cannot have hope of getting on the housing ladder.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:15 pm

sassy1261 wrote:I would agree on the housing. Way back, maybe 16 years ago, I was only earning £12,000 a year, but managed to buy a dear little house for £34,000 on the edge of Taunton. It was very tiny, no more than a flat on two floors, with a patio garden. My ex husband could not be included in the mortgage as he had only been self employed a year and they wanted 3 years books to even think about it. We put french doors from the tiny lounge to the garden and one of those electric awnings above the doors, the garden was so tiny the awning nearly covered it. It turned the garden into a room. I think we were happier there than anywhere. To get back to the point, it was just my wages that covered that mortgage, and provided people don't want palaces, that is the way it should be.

You make a good point, People are less likely to make do any more, which is probably pushing prices up a little too.

Using the numbers in your story you bought a very small house in Taunton for just over 2.8 times your salary.

Even using the mean earnings for full time employees, which according to the ONS is, just under £28,000 that would be more than possible to do nowadays. the same ratio to salary would give you a house price of £78,000 which in Taunton is possible:

http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&areaid=0657&nosold=0

I'll be honest with you I don't know if Taunton is better or worse place since you lived there and I don't know if your salary at the time was above or below the mean.

My point is by using incompatible statistics you can make it say anything you want.

I just looked at the Land registry website and it states the average house price in the UK in May was about £161,000 which is way off what all the news agencies have been stating. They wouldn't be scaremongering would they?

Finally, I am (probably) an average guy in my mid 20's, half decent job, saving to buy my first house. Like most it is taking a little while to save up, but I think it is a little different now to, say, 20 years ago. I still manage a decent holiday every year (leave in a couple of weeks) I manage to go out and enjoy myself, I'm not eating beans on toast all the time: from what my older family say, that wasn't the case when they bought their first houses (the ones that could, my parents didn't), they had to save every penny, and most didn't have a penny to their names after they had paid for their houses. People now have got a bit too used to the easy life. Though I am guilty of that too, I am not complaining about it as I know if I hadn't gone on expensive holidays every year, went to away games in the 6 nations etc etc I would have bought my house already. It just depends on what people see as important.

It's not as bad as people would like us to believe, as we discussed on another thread news agencies rely on scaring and scandal, it is no different here




Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:33 pm

eilzel wrote:King in fairness, the balance between people on huge wages and number of affordable housing is completely off key.

Where I live, it is a very working class area. Yet the new housing they continue to throw up is way out of most peoples price range- most being on often quite a bit below average wage.

I'm going to further MrDs argument here- I think housing should be more affordable to those even on the minimum wage- otherwise what is the point in a minimum to begin with if it dosen't even allow for the lowest standard of living?

The average is catagorically NOT £37,500 by any rational means. Even people in good professions do not always earn that. A HUGE number of jobs today, from call centres to shelf stackers; carers to shop assistants; earn pittance. These are jobs which we NEED to keep the economy running- they may be easy skilless jobs but better than no work at all.

To earn over the 37K mark one must have a damn fine job that are for ahead of what the majority can do (or in alot of cases be very lucky). This, along with building on a mass scale of OVERPRICED housing; is what keeps the balance unfair and ensures thousands cannot have hope of getting on the housing ladder.

Eilzel I didn't make up the statistic I only posted them, I double checked them against the ONS figures and they correlate (both the mean and the median). Whether you like it or not £37Kish is the average salary earned in the UK for full time staff and £28Kish is the median. That isn't spin, just the hard figures. What people do with that is a different matter all together. but the fact is to get a fair picture when comparing 2 datasets you must compare the same variable (mean with mean, median with median).

Whichever one you use, the most useful detail in this example would be to compare if the ratio between the 2 had changed much over the years. I don't have access to either for house prices over the years or median salary so I cannot tell, but Looking at the example sassy gave (though ignoring other factor) it appears it hasn't changed much.

Is a minimum level of living really owning a house or is it renting a house? I would say renting is, I grew up in rented accommodation, I don't believe I grew up without a minimum standard of living, in fact I think the opposite.

I agree that housing should be more affordable, there isn't enough cheap housing about (renting or buying), a good level of affordable council accommodation will help reduce prices of existing houses by decreasing the demand for buying houses. The prices of houses can only exist whilst people are willing to pay these prices, so people must be able to afford them somehow

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:28 pm

I'm the king wrote:

You make a good point, People are less likely to make do any more, which is probably pushing prices up a little too.

Using the numbers in your story you bought a very small house in Taunton for just over 2.8 times your salary.

Even using the mean earnings for full time employees, which according to the ONS is, just under £28,000 that would be more than possible to do nowadays. the same ratio to salary would give you a house price of £78,000 which in Taunton is possible:

http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&areaid=0657&nosold=0


Do you even bother looking at your Links that you post? Question

The cheapest 2 bed-roomed HOUSE in Taunton (not a Flat or a static caravan) is as near as damn it, £90K!!! Twisted Evil

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=8289062

Now, explain to me, how someone working on minimum wage, can afford to buy that, run a car to get to work, pay all the utility bills, buy food and raise a family with one parent at home? Question

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:29 pm

I Zoopla'd the property I was talking about. In 2008 it was sold for £110,000, it has not dropped to £104,000. Thats a one bedroomed mini house, tiny hall, kitchenette and lounge divided by arch downstairs, bedroom and bathroom upstairs, stairs from lounge. No central heating, didn't need it, the gas fire in the lounge heated everywhere!!!!!! I have to say my work was a five minute walk away.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:42 am

MrDoodles wrote:

Do you even bother looking at your Links that you post? Question

The cheapest 2 bed-roomed HOUSE in Taunton (not a Flat or a static caravan) is as near as damn it, £90K!!! Twisted Evil

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&pid=8289062

Now, explain to me, how someone working on minimum wage, can afford to buy that, run a car to get to work, pay all the utility bills, buy food and raise a family with one parent at home? Question

One, who said anything about a 2 bedroom house, I was taking one bedroom, based on Sassy's description, which is easy on a MEAN wage.

did I mention minimum wage? No I mentioned mean, and what should be the minimum standard of living, buying or renting a house?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:36 am

I'm the king wrote:

One, who said anything about a 2 bedroom house, I was taking one bedroom, based on Sassy's description, which is easy on a MEAN wage.

did I mention minimum wage? No I mentioned mean, and what should be the minimum standard of living, buying or renting a house?

Before we go any further, as I know the area, the link you put up was to a property in the very worst area of Taunton, I mean VERY worst, sky high crime rates etc. The house that I was talking about, as I said, very very tiny but in the BEST area, was £34,000 about 17 years ago, went up higher but is now back to £104,000. To buy it at the same ratio of wage to mortage, the wage would have to be approx £32,000 a year.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:43 am

I'm the king wrote:

One, who said anything about a 2 bedroom house, I was taking one bedroom, based on Sassy's description, which is easy on a MEAN wage.

did I mention minimum wage? No I mentioned mean, and what should be the minimum standard of living, buying or renting a house?

I did! Twisted Evil

So by your logic then, your saying that someone on average wage (in the real world, not the FT's) can only afford to buy a one bedroom house! Twisted Evil

This was entirely the point I was making! Twisted Evil

That if a young couple, even if there on "average wage" (which very few are round here, because of immigration) CANNOT afford to either rent or buy a home (as rents or now very similar to mortgage payments) with 2 bedrooms (which you need if your having a child)! Sad

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:59 am

sassy1261 wrote:

Before we go any further, as I know the area, the link you put up was to a property in the very worst area of Taunton, I mean VERY worst, sky high crime rates etc. The house that I was talking about, as I said, very very tiny but in the BEST area, was £34,000 about 17 years ago, went up higher but is now back to £104,000. To buy it at the same ratio of wage to mortage, the wage would have to be approx £32,000 a year.

As I said I don't know the area, so cannot be sure. though I did just check the crime in the area and it is a third of the crime in my area which is supposedly a 'safe' area, so not sure what that says about where I live.

Even at 32,000 that is still below the mean (average) salary in the UK.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Biz Briefing: Unsold Homes + Market Jitters

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum